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I know 1-20 rating scale is based off Hattrick, but I'd prefer there was fewer skill ratings, or have a cap on skills at a lower range, say 15/marvelous rather than 20/legendary.

For example, inside players seem to have the fewest number of key skills, inside scoring/defense-rebounding-shot blocking, on top of the important stamina/free throw skills that all have to be addressed with training (and thats still leaving out maybe passing or shooting that may help inside players too).

Even if you drafted the perfect 18yo center, say respectable in all the 4 key inside skills, it would still take ~4 seasons to get them to prolific (11) in those 4 skills, and thats with little to no stam/free throw training (based on my short history of training inside players that is)

It's possible for teams to train how they prefer and go for more single skilled players, but that does them and future transfer market no good, especially if salaries get out of control at higher levels like in HT. I guess I'd just like to see BB avoid the over-training of players, and keep training more realistic.

Fair enough, I understand not wanting to force or cap training. I guess the question of salaries and training will be addressed over time as players get trained more. Though it'd be nice to get a player salary updated more often then just once a season it makes more sense to keep it as if it was a yearly contract.

Our philosophy is that we will create conditions where it does not make sense for a player to be single-skilled, but if a team decides for some reason that they really want a single-skilled player, I don't think it's our place to say they're not allowed to make one. The only thing we will do is to set up training and gameplay rules where single-skilled players are very unlikely to be a good choice.

I think this is really not fair to Jump Shot trainers, and it is going to cause an unbalanced situation on the game. Because for inside players the secondaries for the inside position match the secondaries for inside training. Meanwhile, for the Jump Shot training the secondaries seem to be Driving and Range, which are not as important as Outside Defense or Passing.

So if the situation is really like this, I am going to abandon my outside training and train inside players, and i'm afraid everyone will also do that once they realize this.

Edit: just to make it more clear: what do you prefer to train: Jump Shot+Driving+JumpRange or Inside Shot+Inside Defense+Rebounding ? There is no doubt there... While the first would create alienated shooters, the other would have complete inside guys.

Edited 9/30/2007 3:43:29 AM by GM-Raonne

I don't think that there are really any "secondaries" for players besides FT and Stamina.

Each of the skills are equally important, and serves to prevent single-skilled players that aren't as effective as those who receive proper training.

If you REALLY think every skills is just as important then tell me if you would trade a guy that has Prolific inside shot, Prolific inside defense and Prolific rebouding for a guy that has Prolific jump shot, Prolific driving, Prolific range and ATROCIOUS outside defense and ATROCIOUS passing?

Of course not.

Bottom line is, I understand the idea behind this "secondaries requirement", I think it was a good effort, but now I am completely AGAINST IT.

Another argument to it is that we have way to many skills and if you want to have a legendary player you can't be training him on 3 skills.

And another argument is that in real life is easier to have a player alienated then a complete one.

And another argument is that the user should havce the freedom to choose if he wants to make his player a complete overall player or a specialist in one thing. Without any punishments for doing so.

Anyway, I know the training system won't be changed, so i wont even waste my time anymore. I just wanted to raise the heads up for the non-fairness of this requirement between inside/outside players. If nothing is done to prevent this, I will sell my awesome guard trainees, change my training to "Inside everything", and recommend everyone on BB to do the same.

Are you having a bad day, Raonne? I've never seen you this fired up.

I see what you're saying, but I'll take a different tact on it. You could argue that outside players need 6 skills (jump shot, jump range, driving, passing, handling, and outside D) while inside guys only need 4 (inside shot, inside D, rebounding, and shot blocking) so that the teams who focus on training inside guys are going to have better skilled players than those who train outside guys.

This could lead to an inbalance in the game engine, but I would imagine that would be corrected by the market, with high-level guards will be more valuable, since they'll be harder to make. However, as I think we've seen with HT, letting the economic market correct for an error in the development of the game is a very bad idea, since when the two become intertwined from the start, the downfall of both is much more likely.

I think the more elegant solution is to:

1. Either make driving/passing as valuable for inside guys as it is for outside guys (maybe it already is, I don't know! BBs?) so everyone needs to have 6 skills to be extremely well-rounded.

2. Or, make the outside skills train faster than the inside skills, since there are more of them. I'm already a little disconcerted by the inside training speeds, since I hear rebounding is one of the fastest skills to train, and it's also one of the most important.

One last thing:

And another argument is that the user should havce the freedom to choose if he wants to make his player a complete overall player or a specialist in one thing. Without any punishments for doing so.

I think we can all agree that giving the user freedom to build players however they like (without penalties for just having guys with one skill) will result in a game that's far less intriguing than BB has the potential to be.

If you REALLY think every skills is just as important then tell me if you would trade a guy that has Prolific inside shot, Prolific inside defense and Prolific rebouding for a guy that has Prolific jump shot, Prolific driving, Prolific range and ATROCIOUS outside defense and ATROCIOUS passing?

Depends on how long it takes for outside skills to pop compared to inside skills.

SInce there's more outside skills, I believe the rate of training is increased somewhat for the outside skills.

This would make it so that outside players develop around the same rate as inside players.

Another argument to it is that we have way to many skills and if you want to have a legendary player you can't be training him on 3 skills.

As it stands, the only real way to get a legendary player is to train him in several skills. Eventually training a single skill will slow down a player's training.

And another argument is that the user should havce the freedom to choose if he wants to make his player a complete overall player or a specialist in one thing. Without any punishments for doing so.

One of the key points of BB training is to avoid having a bunch of single-skilled monoliths like you see in HT.

Here's an example of why single-skill training should not work long term:

The Chicago Bulls of the Jordan era had quite the collection of talent, but if players who only did one thing really well were the stars, we'd be talking about the Kerr Era or the Paxson Era. A player like Steve Kerr or John Paxson are nice to have to be able to hit a three when you need it, but to build around those types of players are a recipe for disaster in the pros, and should be a recipe for disaster here.

A player like Michael Jordan or Larry Bird did many things well, and that's what made them legends of the game.

"Requiring" multi-skill training for long-term success will ensure that the health of the economy will stay at the proper levels, and will make for a tactically diverse game overall.

I agree with all of this, but my point still stands. All of that is actually an argument in favor of what I'm saying.

The way things are, trainers of JS+Drive+JR will have alienated shooters, while inside trainers will have complete players. And saying that the complete players are better, and better to build a team around is obvious, it's my whole point.

Are you having a bad day, Raonne?

My day has been very nice so far. How is yours?

The way things are, trainers of JS+Drive+JR will have alienated shooters

What do you mean by "alienated"?

In the USA, that word usually means pissed off, I just want to make sure we're on the same page as far as what you are saying.

Also, if the outside skills train more quickly, then inside and outside players would develop at the same right, except that the outside players would have a bit more diverse skills.