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Best defense vs. 1 dominant scoring guard? & question on box and one def...

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From: shikago
This Post:
00
196880.1
Date: 9/21/2011 7:07:56 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
Just a hypothetical question.

If a team has 1 dominant scoring guard what's the best overall defense to play? Especially if that team plays Patient on offense. (since that means that 1 player will end up taking most of the shots...) Imagine a team with a $150k guard & only a $30k center & $30k SG as the next best scoring threats.

I have no real experience with Outside Box and One, but according to the game manual wouldn't it be the best option? (Still I find that hard to believe.) I'll quote the manual & ask a follow up in a 2nd post, since it's not completely related to the poll question.



as for the poll question... assume there's a 90% chance of Patient offense being played & answer accordingly. thanks.
Poll:  Best defense against a team with 1 dominant scoring guard?
3-2 Zone
Outside Box and One
Man to Man, with your best defender on him
Other (please explain)

From: shikago

This Post:
11
196880.2 in reply to 196880.1
Date: 9/21/2011 7:08:21 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
From the game manual. (has the description been changed? Thought it was worded differently before...)
Box-and-One defenses: Four players play in a zone defense protecting the basket while the fifth player plays a man-to-man defense guarding the best offensive player on the other team. This prevents him from scoring as much. There are two types of box-and-one defenses:

Inside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best inside scorer. Normal pace.

Outside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best outside scorer. Normal pace.


Who is that 5th defender?... Is it random or your best defensive player? & how does this stop him from scoring more than Man to Man if you already have your best defender on him? Also, say you had your best outside defender at SF & their dominant scorer was at PG. Would the SF be defending him with Outside Box and One? I can't see the point of Outside Box and One, unless it was protection against the team moving their best scorer to an unexpected position. (like if he normally played SG, but was put in at PG or SF to throw you off)

Anyway, I'd think 3-2 zone would be the best & safest option for the example in the first post. Am I wrong?

Oh & according to the description of Inside Box and One, all 5 players are protecting the basket!?! (since the 5th would be guarding an inside player) Does that mean it would be even worse against outside offenses (3pt shooting) than a 2-3 zone?

Last edited by shikago at 9/21/2011 7:22:08 AM

From: rcvaz

This Post:
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196880.3 in reply to 196880.2
Date: 9/21/2011 11:57:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
From my experience, the outside box-and-one didn't work as well as I expected... The superstar ended up taking a lot of shots guarded by people other than my best defender. So if his offense is too outside balanced I would go with 3-2, if not than M2M and stick my best defender on his guy

This Post:
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196880.4 in reply to 196880.3
Date: 9/21/2011 12:51:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2020
the answer is inside box and one. You hold off the other guys by protecting the paint and your one godlike defender will take care of the scoring SG. I have seen it work like a charm. Though keep in mind, that guy playing man to man will be very tired, so i'd recommend he should have high stamina + you need a 3+ doctor(for some reason i've seen a guy get injured right after minute 47 in such a game, was it the tactics? dunno)

This Post:
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196880.5 in reply to 196880.4
Date: 9/21/2011 1:19:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
You mean outside box and one?

This Post:
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196880.6 in reply to 196880.5
Date: 9/21/2011 1:28:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2020
i mean inside:) the "and one" seemed to stay right near the best offensive player. Can't really find that game.

This Post:
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196880.7 in reply to 196880.6
Date: 9/21/2011 2:11:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
But then it contradicts what it says in the manual:

Inside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best inside scorer. Normal pace.

It says inside scorer, I would take the SG to be an outside scorer.

From: shikago

This Post:
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196880.8 in reply to 196880.7
Date: 9/23/2011 6:06:57 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
But then it contradicts what it says in the manual:

Inside Box-and-One: The fifth defender focuses on the opponent's best inside scorer. Normal pace.

It says inside scorer, I would take the SG to be an outside scorer.

That's my thought too. The way it's worded in the manual, 1 defender would guard his center, & the other 4 would be in a zone around the basket. (using Inside Box and One). That's why I wondered if it's worse than 2-3 zone against Princeton or Motion type offenses?

From: shikago

This Post:
00
196880.9 in reply to 196880.3
Date: 9/23/2011 6:14:38 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
From my experience, the outside box-and-one didn't work as well as I expected... The superstar ended up taking a lot of shots guarded by people other than my best defender.

Thanks, I don't have any real experience with Outside Box and One. I had a feeling it wasn't too good...


From: rcvaz

This Post:
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196880.10 in reply to 196880.9
Date: 9/23/2011 1:19:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
There have been a few threads concerning the box-and-one defenses. The complain is not so much that they don't work, but it's not very clear how they work... I would suggest that you try it in scrimmages or less important games to try it out. I use inside or outside box-and-one very rarely, and usually it's really a shot in the dark

From: shikago

This Post:
00
196880.11 in reply to 196880.10
Date: 9/24/2011 12:01:48 AM
Milwaukee Lethargy
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
849849
Second Team:
Miłwaukee Lethargy
I tried it a lot in scrimmages / PL games when it was new. But it's hard to judge when playing backups or when the other team isn't good / right for it. Was wondering if anyone had better than expected results from Outside Box and One in a serious game? My guess is no...

I had much worse than expected results from the new tactics. Especially when playing Box and One defense & Isolation offense together. Games were much closer than they should have been. (would have won by double with normal tactics). Of course I haven't tried recently & my team is much different now.

Last edited by shikago at 9/24/2011 12:03:41 AM