BuzzerBeater Forums

I haven't seen any thread on this subject, yet I think this kind of mishap had happened to other coachs.

We had a great season in France IV.45(2) http://www.buzzerbeater.com/league/809/overview.aspx
with 4 teams fighting for the first positions. Toward the end of the season three teams were tied for the first place. So it was clear that the points differrence would be critical. Prospects looked good for me as I add a little points advantage.
Then 2 weeks before the end the last team of the conference was substituted by a new player and a new team. The trouble is that I had allready played this team before, and at that time it had a 35000$ and a 25000$ players among other. So my competitors would instead faces a beginner team with players from 3000$ to 5000$. Compared to me they get 25-30 extra pts, putting my leadership in jeopardy.

As if it were not enough the next to last team played rather "casualy" sometimes fielding only 4 players. So despite the exciting season, top team's coach had a bitter feeling as the competition for the first places was skewed by the last ranked teams.

So to try to recover the first place I played Crunch Time for the last game of the season vs a week team, against which I expected to play TE to be ready for the play offs, if I had maintained my point advantage.
Finally I kept the first place, but I payed the CT dearly loosing the first play off round in Overtime. While I had a 5 pts lead and the ball with 13 second to go!

So I wonder If the system could avoid subsituting teams during the last third of the season. Eventually playing them as bots until the end of the season, as they are if the player retires. It's also irritating during the first part of the season but it's more manageable. Actually ther is a large gap between the weaker in D.IV (this might varies from countries to countries) and a brand new team. Starting newcommers in D.V, and waiting the start of the next season to tidy up the bots teams and retired players, would make for a fairer competition.

I clearly understand that BB is a game, moreover with free access, that some peoples my just want to take a look at it and resign. I also suppose that most of us as more important thing in there real life. But this is one of the most frustrating aspect in the lower leagues.

Well that's just life in the lower divisions, many teams go bot and are replaced by new teams.
I think you're lack of success was because you made a foolish choice to CT against such a poor team at the end of the season. That's a terrible decision that ruined your season.

I think I can relay to what Dworcus said.
Why doing substitutions at the middle of the season?

Keep playing BOT, but the play the same as the former player.
Then, at the end of the season sell all the player and replace this team with one of the new teams.

In the meanwhile, add new players to a league with BOT teams only (of course, add them to one of the low ranked team, as it is not fair to take them straight up to an upper league, and it also may cause other users to leave a team just for getting this chance).
And again, at the end of the season, move them to a league where a user left whie the season played.

In addition, I also support what coolbobj said (and believe you understand his point), that your mistake had been playing CT at the end of the season.

Well that's just life in the lower divisions, many teams go bot and are replaced by new teams.
I think you're lack of success was because you made a foolish choice to CT against such a poor team at the end of the season. That's a terrible decision that ruined your season.

I never planned to play CT vs such a low team, watching the schedule I expected to play TIE to be in good conditions for the playoffs. But due to the aforementioned circumstances I was ranked 2nd before the last regular season game, not only facing the prospect of loosing the first place, but also threatened by the 3rd guy behind me. I knew the leader would have a walkover and would score around +60
Actually my own game was also walkover because my opponent fielded only 4 players, but I didn't wan't to gamble the regular season and playoff at home, on the fact that the casual player would field a complete team or not. Moreover this guy played with a full team the game before.

It was a agonising decision to take, like beeing caught between a rock and a hard place, yet I was so close to win the first PO round that it was not so FOOLISH. It's certainly easy to call it a mistake afterward but If I had played Bormal or TIE and the guy had fielded his complete team, I would certainly have finished the regular season 2nd or 3rd. And playing the PO away might have resulted in a lost game .

Well I feel rather hoaxed by the way things unfolded, I could have coped with one adverse event or the other, but both prooved too much, in such a competitive situation.

Anyway, beside my particular case, the point, as the title of the post suggested, was to ask to avoid making substitution of teams in the last third of the season when so much are at stake. Although the system would have trouble checking how close is the competition in a league. It sounds easyer to check the rough strength of a team before substitution, and to create new team in place of team of roughly equal strength in an appropriate division.

I know it's the "life in the lower divisions" as you say, and I clearly see that this kind of events appears less frequently in higher divisions. But the whole point of the post is to suggest possible improvements, as fit this specific forum. Because I really found that the way the casual player behave is one of the most frustrating thing in lower divisions. So I couls easily see how newcomers could be disgusted by the kind of mishap I had.

Last edited by Dworcus at 10/21/2011 6:48:47 AM

when i see it right you was 0 points ahead of place three.

And it won't get so much fairer if you change it, at least in the top of the division you should be able to beat a newcomer by a high margin even with a tie or max a normal(something i would think your eam could do also)

Another think through the game design gameshape minutes, switching effort and trainee playing the team strength of the opponent switch often and such things also make other tie breaker like head to head comparision unfair in my eyes(at least in balanced leagues where you didn't know from the begin who get placed next to you).
The PD thing at least, have consider so many games, that it balancing that a bit out.

when i see it right you was 0 points ahead of place three.
And it won't get so much fairer if you change it, at least in the top of the division you should be able to beat a newcomer by a high margin even with a tie or max a normal(something i would think your eam could do also)

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here.

I posted in this forum not to discuss about my particular mishap, it was just to illustrate the potential damages, that team subsitution could do in the last part of the season. The point of a championship is to mesure the overall performance of each team matching each others, obvioulsly it includes some luck factor, and I have no problems at accepting it, I play Go or Chess if I want a no luck game, actually its part of the fun. But if you change some teams during the course of the season, it breaks the whole thing. Especially if the team subsituted is of significantly different strength.

So my suggestion was to make teams substitutions if necessary at the end of a season third. So that each other team would face a similar challenge. And in the meantime I asked why the system doesn't play for the team, if necessary, but keeping it roster.

I also thought about your point about other possible tie breakers. Head to head comparison is a possibility, as you mention, it also as its own problem. Averaging the point difference is OK for me, as it balance the luck factor on more games. But it make sense if we all play again similar opponents. In my case, the subsitution resulted in a net 25-30pts free points for my competitors. In a different league situation it might not have mattered, but in our very specific case it meant a lot.

The others issue is about player fielding an incomplete team (most of the time because they are lazy, and don't update their default team after selling players or injuries). I can see reasons to do it in a scrimmage game. But to field less than 5 players in a competitive game when you have more operational on your roster seems really weird. It does happens IRL that a team doesn't field is best players, especially when it is in contention in various event, like championship plus cup plus continental cup. But I don't remeber seeing a team fielding less than the required number of players in any profesional sport. The team would be seriously fined, if it happened. Maybe again the system could force 5 players on the field. If someone is to be penalized, why wouldn't it be the offender?