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Basically with barely more than 2 weeks of having played this game I already found out how bad it is.


1) On my match which is happening right now I'm playing, apparently my opponent fielded a team full of " " footballers. Yes, their name is invisible.

So what, may you ask? Well, it so happens that for whatever reason now my players literally foul in every single posession and by the end of the 2nd quarter I have 5 guys fouled out, and the rest is about to do the same.

Since I didn't expect the Match Engine to be so much garbage, I only fielded 9 players and not 10 + reserves. Shame on me. Now randomly generated players called "Lucky Fans" are fielding up my team and the result I'll get will be garbage compared to what should have been.


2) The game is so bad that literally my best shooter is one with the lowest FG %, whereas the Weakbobs of Fail that came with my initial squad (that I already fired) still hold the best FG %.


3) The ammount of randomness distribution, related to scoring streaks, losing possession streaks, FG %, etc, makes this game one of the worse in terms of randomness out there. The only reason why it isn't worse it's because luckily rules of basketball makes you play 4 quarters so it kinda evens it out.


4) Apparently player rating/team rating and points scored per 100 shots are so random and badly programmed, that is impossible to take conclusions in regards to what happened on the pitch, and how to improve your tactics based on it. Too inconsistent and not explained properly on the Game Manual.

The most satisfatory answer on the Help Forum was "don't look too much into it" by a 2nd Div player, which only reveals that this feature is probably broken.


5) The metagame seems really unbalanced as some skills are clearly better even in terms of salary (I've been reading some discussion).


While I'll probably still play this game because it seems okay, it fails on too many levels.

Last edited by Vicestab at 9/25/2012 3:31:46 PM

Take a deep breath my friend - this is the best game going
Real good chance that your opponent didn't field a line up
your game will be a walkover and finish 25-0 in your favor
none of the stats you see will actually count
the minute distribution will be 36-12 for 2 players in 1 position
the player that plays a whole game will get 43
There actually was never a game - stop watching

Basically with barely more than 2 weeks of having played this game I already found out how bad it is.

Ok, two weeks is better than 2 days, but hopefully you can be convinced that with a bit more time spent in the game, many of your issues will become clearer, and show you how excellent the game can be.

1) On my match which is happening right now I'm playing, apparently my opponent fielded a team full of " " footballers. Yes, their name is invisible.

This is because your opponent didn't field a lineup, and as such he will forfeit the game. Now the game still gets simulated, and there is something to watch in the viewer, but at the end, all of the stats from what you saw will be set to zero, and you'll be awarded a 25-0 win. This team has forfeited nearly all other games this season.

So what, may you ask? Well, it so happens that for whatever reason now my players literally foul in every single posession and by the end of the 2nd quarter I have 5 guys fouled out, and the rest is about to do the same.

The "players" in this particular sim are similar to "lucky fans" who at times will enter the game. They tend to be very aggressive, and will both commit fouls, but also draw fouls from your players.

Since I didn't expect the Match Engine to be so much garbage....

Again, this is only the result of the lack of a lineup from your opponent. This sort of behavior won't occur in normal league games. And just to check, this sort of thing hasn't happened in your other games, correct?

2) The game is so bad that literally my best shooter is one with the lowest FG %, whereas the Weakbobs of Fail that came with my initial squad (that I already fired) still hold the best FG %.

There are many skills that go into determining a player's FG percentage, and those skills interact with both the tactics you chose and the other players on the court. Also, looking at your players, they all have pretty similar salaries, so it's hard to imagine that any one is going to be such a better shooter than the others.

3) The ammount of randomness distribution, related to scoring streaks, losing possession streaks, FG %, etc, makes this game one of the worse in terms of randomness out there. The only reason why it isn't worse it's because luckily rules of basketball makes you play 4 quarters so it kinda evens it out.

I haven't experienced too much randomness in this game really. I find it to be pretty good overall. Teams that are clearly better than others will usually win, but not always.

4) Apparently player rating/team rating and points scored per 100 shots are so random and badly programmed, that is impossible to take conclusions in regards to what happened on the pitch, and how to improve your tactics based on it. Too inconsistent and not explained properly on the Game Manual.

Could you be more specific in what you'd want to know about these? Also, if you are interested in how team ratings are calculated, I'd point you toward the Coach Parrot spreadsheet, made by Josef Ka (in the helpful programs stickied post in Help I think). He did a great job to show what skills in what positions are used to generate team ratings.

Both team ratings and PP100 are useful, and in my opinion do a decent job in signalling to a manager how their team is performing on the court. They're not perfect, but there are reasons and ways that they don't take everything into account.

5) The metagame seems really unbalanced as some skills are clearly better even in terms of salary (I've been reading some discussion).

I think all skills can be useful within different player builds and for different team tactics. And they don't all cost the same salary. Skills that are very important tend to get quite expensive, both in salary terms and in how they affect a player's maximum skills

You played a walkover game, your argumnet is invalid. you won 25-0, none of your players even played. What you've seen is total **** worth nothing, that basicly didn't happen.

Last edited by Fluff at 9/27/2012 2:40:53 AM

When it comes to the FG %:

My former PF was 26-37 (70%), with 4-7 3pt. He was inept IS with respectable JS and low JR.
My shooting guard is 14-36 (39%) with 2-12 3pt. He is strong JS and JR, with respectable IS.

Looking at my current players, he is the 2nd worse at FG % and 3rd worse at 3pt %, even though at shooting alone he is straight up the best player I have.

He only played 3 games but I'm not seeing how this will even out that much more. I've been watching games and he's consistently the one who scores less in %.

To add insult to injury, his Game Shape has been top notch, being 8 for 2 games, and 9 for the last game.




The player rating overall I guess it's somewhat consistent, what really isn't is the scoring/defending rating with the PP100.

Looking at this (I'm the right side):

inept (medium) Outside Scoring inept (medium)
inept (medium) Inside Scoring pitiful (high)
pitiful (medium) Perimeter Defense inept (medium)
pitiful (high) Inside Defense inept (low)

My C and PF had the most PP100. Yet my inside scoring is considerably lower than outside scoring, and their inside defense is better than outside defense.

When I saw this, I quickly realized that the statistics this game provides are not to be trusted, and therefore I was disappointed I can't make up tactics based on it because this feature is completly broken and makes no sense.

Last edited by Vicestab at 9/25/2012 4:03:47 PM

When it comes to comparing PF to SG, well, then this is just a proof that either the game benefits too much inside OR that the game has too much randomness? 70% FG with inept inside shooting is way better than my SG? In theory training a SG to this level would take more effort than training that PF I had.

And how does the team rating/PP100 thing I presented makes any sense btw? You say it's too complex, well I just think it's too BS. No way such a big gap in skills can lead to this randomness without something being wrong. I'm not betting in the stars aligning because it only happens once in a billion years.

And yes 3 games is not much but then I'll send you a message in 1 week when the same thing happens again and my SG still has bad FG %. With high game shape too.

Last edited by Vicestab at 9/25/2012 4:24:25 PM

I fear you see only half of the problem.

This game, as basketball in real life, is all about matchups. Add to that that that big men are always more efficient in real life, since his shots are of higher percentage kind. Thus, your C and PF tends to have the biggest PP100.

The way people train players in the defensive end in this game, tends to make outside defenders better than inside defenders. This adds to the lower efficiency of perimeter players.

You can't try and make conclusions if you don't know the other team. When you learn (and 2 weeks is almost nothing, sorry) a little better to read the adversaries, you will be better at reading the stats.

Can you defnie how to "read better the adversaries", when all of these opponents go simply base offense man marking with the initial players they had because they only logged on to the game once or twice?

The stats they provide couldn't be more inconsistent like I said based on the ratings of that game. Also the fact that I play these opponents makes the game less complex and more "bland" and therefore easier to analyze.

Only explanation really is that C and PF is OP but still...

Last edited by Vicestab at 9/25/2012 4:29:57 PM

When it comes to the FG %:

My former PF was 26-37 (70%), with 4-7 3pt. He was inept IS with respectable JS and low JR.
My shooting guard is 14-36 (39%) with 2-12 3pt. He is strong JS and JR, with respectable IS.

Looking at my current players, he is the 2nd worse at FG % and 3rd worse at 3pt %, even though at shooting alone he is straight up the best player I have.

Backcourt players always have worse FG% than front court players. Long jumpers and 3 point shots are more difficult to make, and don't convert at nearly the same rates. Check the FG% leaders in the NBA. They are inside players. So in that case, BB is modeling the world pretty well.

As far as Juterborg, he's taken 13 3FG attempts, and gotten perhaps a bit unlucky that only 2 went in. But 13 observations is not a useful statistical sample. And it's not just his JS and JR that affect his FG%, but also his driving, inside shot, and passing. His passing looks good, judging from his assist totals. But the others will affect his exact percentage. Really, on a guy who's 8 JS, 39% FG% is pretty decent.

The player rating overall I guess it's somewhat consistent, what really isn't is the scoring/defending rating with the PP100.

Looking at this (I'm the right side):

inept (medium) Outside Scoring inept (medium)
inept (medium) Inside Scoring pitiful (high)
pitiful (medium) Perimeter Defense inept (medium)
pitiful (high) Inside Defense inept (low)

My C and PF had the most PP100. Yet my inside scoring is considerably lower than outside scoring, and their inside defense is better than outside defense.

When I saw this, I quickly realized that the statistics this game provides are not to be trusted, and therefore I was disappointed I can't make up tactics based on it because this feature is completly broken and makes no sense.

Well, part of this is reflected in the difference in FG% inherent between inside and outside shots. So that's affecting your C and PF and center's PP100 values. Inside guys almost always will have a higher PP100 than their backcourt teammates. And their inside defense isn't higher than their perimeter defense (a step from pitiful(med) to pitiful(high) is very small).

Finally, there's a way that his lower perimeter defense can boost your inside guys' PP100, and that's because of uncontested shots. A uncontested shot is one that if it is converted, becomes an assist for whoever made the pass. And when your backcourt players have the ball and are trying to pass, they are competing against the defender's OD. So, a low perimeter defense for your opponent makes it easier for your guards to pass to your inside players, and lets them make easy dunks and layups.

Note that this effect of uncontested shots doesn't appear in the team inside scoring rating. That value is controlled just by the skills of your bigs.

It's also useful to note that the team ratings are a reflection of the skills of your players at various positions, but they don't tell the entire story. They don't reflect the importance of secondary skills on players (such as passing on big men, or inside shot on guards). And they don't really reflect the player by player matchups, or the effects of subsitution patterns. So they are useful, but there's no completely deterministic relationship between team ratings and PP100.

Ok so I'll have to guess that the fact that he is 2nd worse FG % is kinda unlucky and that I'm dumb to be training jump shot instead of inside shots,and that I shouldn't waste 30k on a proper SG because SG is complete garbage, because at the end of the day C or PF are OP. Guess that's really all of an answer I have to hear.

Last edited by Vicestab at 9/25/2012 4:41:19 PM