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USA div3 turnovers

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241476.2 in reply to 241476.1
Date: 5/8/2013 7:54:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
244244
Hmm, well I average a top notch(I think) 8.1 a game, and here's what I have for "ball control skills" ;)

PA/HA(starters then backups) turnovers/game for each guy as well
PG: 15/14(1.2) - 13/10(0.6)
SG: 12/11(0.7) - 5/6(0.6)
SF: 11/13(0.9) - 7/9(1.1)
PF: 10/13(0.7) - 7/6(0.8)
C: 5/8(0.8) - 7/6(0.9)

This Post:
22
241476.3 in reply to 241476.1
Date: 5/8/2013 8:26:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
498498
So, I'm not a top 50 div3 team, but the Clams are doing alright with 10.5 TOPG. Teams in my league range from 9.5-15 TOPG. But the successful teams are all around 11 or lower.

This may be a bit of apples/oranges since I've only run LI half my season. But, I have bigs with 12/8, 3/6, 6/5, and 5/7 HA/PA all of whom are between 0.9 and 1.1 TOPG on the season. (Incidentally, I think TO/48 is more informative. My bigs range from 1.5-2 TO/48.)

I wonder if stamina plays a part. Do you notice more turnovers late in the game? Unrelatedly, do you notice a difference when you face zones?

Another thought, which is "untested." DR might also affect TO rates indirectly for scorers. A player may get the ball but not have a good shot right away, forcing him either to try and make something happen off the dribble, or to attempt a pass. When this happens to a player with low DR, his opponent can defend the pass, knowing that the low DR player's chances of driving to the basket successfully are low. This makes a low DR player more likely to turn it over (at least in my head).

Join the official USA offsite forum for helper tools, camaraderie and advice! (http://s3.zetaboards.com/BuzzerBeater_USA_NT/index/) – Builder of the Training Simulator: (229484.1) – Former host of the Golden Clam Invitational (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/fedoverview.aspx?fe...)
This Post:
00
241476.5 in reply to 241476.4
Date: 5/9/2013 7:04:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
244244
Oh and also I run Base Offense almost exclusively.

This Post:
11
241476.6 in reply to 241476.5
Date: 5/9/2013 8:26:26 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I'm at 8.1 as well, with a lot of "good" handlers/passers rather than a few great ones.

The HA/DR/PA of my 10 primary players + trainees:
trainees:
10/10/6
9/10/7
10/13/10

bigs:
6/7/6
7/1/7

guards:
14/13/10
12/11/9
14/13/8
11/11/7
12/13/11

Mostly running Princeton.

This Post:
66
241476.7 in reply to 241476.4
Date: 5/9/2013 11:49:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
498498
I think this might be a function of tactic. With inside tactics, you're always trying to get your bigs the ball. And so they'll have more opportunities to turn it over. But that's offset by their increased likelihood of grabbing a rebound.

In order to address this tradeoff, I sometimes compare teams by ORB-TO per game and see where you stand. For lack of a better term I call this "Possession Holding" or PH.

I made a chart (http://imgur.com/CkQZHcf) to look at this question (and highlighted LI teams for you, FYI: Dong Energy is tanking and The Meatbusters went bot a few games into the season, and the bolding on wins got screwed up somehow[?]).

This isn't a large enough data set to be able to draw conclusions about the whole game, but a few things pop out at me:
- Successful teams are below 12 TOPG, and have positive PH.
- The teams with the highest "bonus" possessions per game are Motion and PTB.
- LI teams max out at about 1.5 "bonus" posessions per game.

Join the official USA offsite forum for helper tools, camaraderie and advice! (http://s3.zetaboards.com/BuzzerBeater_USA_NT/index/) – Builder of the Training Simulator: (229484.1) – Former host of the Golden Clam Invitational (http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/fedoverview.aspx?fe...)
This Post:
00
241476.9 in reply to 241476.7
Date: 5/9/2013 4:42:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
164164
+1 as well. Simon your chart craziness never seizes to amaze. Always useful. Thanks

This Post:
00
241476.10 in reply to 241476.7
Date: 5/9/2013 5:51:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
This isn't a large enough data set to be able to draw conclusions about the whole game, but a few things pop out at me:
- Successful teams are below 12 TOPG, and have positive PH.
- The teams with the highest "bonus" possessions per game are Motion and PTB.
- LI teams max out at about 1.5 "bonus" posessions per game.


If it helps any, we've got a primarily LI team that's at +6.1 PH (almost water!).

DC Dribble Penetrators, 18.7 ORPG (Opp 7.5), TOPG 12.6 (Opp 9.5). It's only gotten them to five wins, but the 12.6 TOPG is the worst in our league excluding the one team that threw in the towel after the first third of the season.

Although I'm not the charts wizard (nor even the Excel paper clip), some of the things I generally look at between BuzzerManager and the USA Offsite advanced stats (worth the price of admission, which is free, and worth more than that!) are:
Turnovers vs. Turnovers forced
shooting percentage vs. opp shooting percentage
opponent's contested shots + your open shots.
salary for players 6-10


This Post:
00
241476.11 in reply to 241476.10
Date: 5/9/2013 6:28:45 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
244244
I like this chart thingy, has me at +8.1 PH, and I like anything where I can lead the league :D