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My first home game of the season just arrived, and I got to see firsthand how bad the 40% hit to first division income looks. It hurts as bad as it looks.

My country isn't big. In fact our total pool of users is about half the users currently online in Italy alone. The standard of play of the top league would probably be somewhere in between Div II and Div III in Italy. But unlike those playing in the lower rungs of the bigger leagues, we are encumbered with the 'income tax' designed to limit the financial power of bigger teams.

Case in point, I sold my best Center coming into this season in the wake of the new changes. Generally speaking, I weakened my team. However the revenue coming in was still miniscule. If I had kept my Center, my team would barely turn over every week. And to show that my team is nowhere near high-powered enough, the entire salary of my team is only enough to pay for ONE of the stars in the big teams.

The changes were made for the good of the game, yes I agree. However, I believe that the teams from the smaller nations shouldn't be made to pay too high a price. After all if you put it into perspective, skill-wise we are just competing around the lower 2 divisions of the big leagues, yet are made to pay the penalty designed to contain the biggest incomes in the ganme.

The standard of play of the top league would probably be somewhere in between Div II and Div III in Italy. But unlike those playing in the lower rungs of the bigger leagues, we are encumbered with the 'income tax' designed to limit the financial power of bigger teams.

You're also "encumbered" with top division season ticket holders against said DII/DIII competition. How is this a burden, you still come out ahead if your STH's are double or triple those divisions?

I doubt you'd rather have a large cut in STH's for 15% less tax in DII or 30% less tax in DIII.

And to show that my team is nowhere near high-powered enough, the entire salary of my team is only enough to pay for ONE of the stars in the big teams.

Bit of an exaggeration there, your salaries are around 110k. That's maybe half what alot of the top teams have, and more then double my highest paid player.

Based on your arena/attendance and those salaries, I'd guess your finances are looking better then mine this season.

edit - In fact, just based on salary to ticket sales from your last game, you're making 70% profit (185k sales to 110k salaries), while based on mine I'm losing 10% (225k sales to 250k salaries).

Last edited by brian at 8/19/2008 10:00:15 AM

We are seeing close to 80k Centers now, so I'm not too far off. If it wasn't for the fact that I made the purely economic decision to sell my Center, my salaries would be around 140k. Which means a +35k profit.

But wait, there's the staff salaries + scouting which needs to be contra-ed off agaisnt the merchandise + tv revenue. My staff salaries are quite high being in the top division so for me the nett figure is negative. Put this with the +35k will yield me with a paper-thin profit. Ending up 5th at season end with 3 weeks of no income will wipe this out and more.

What I am saying here is the big teams from the established countries won't have that big an issue with this. However, imagine smacking this 40% cut to the teams in your Div II or III and you'll see the issues faced with smaller countries here. Our teams will almost never challenge the top leagues in established countries, now we are stifled financially so we lose out to similar skilled teams in the lower divisions of other countries.

I would prefer to be on top of a starting country to being somewhere in the middle of an established country. With the same wages (e.g. 110k€) you have much more income, the chance to win trophies, mybe even compete in BBB, bring players to NT, etc.

Case in point, I sold my best Center coming into this season in the wake of the new changes. Generally speaking, I weakened my team. However the revenue coming in was still miniscule.

Now this, my friend, is not miniscule: 3.500.000€.

Excuse me, but this looks like you have lost sanity and reason.

However, imagine smacking this 40% cut to the teams in your Div II or III and you'll see the issues faced with smaller countries here.

Again, no need for imagination here. I have the same wage bill to be competitive in D.II Germany but I have lesser income from PR and Arena (25% instead of 40% cut but less visitors/lower prices).

But wait, there's the staff salaries + scouting which needs to be contra-ed off agaisnt the merchandise + tv revenue. My staff salaries are quite high being in the top division so for me the nett figure is negative.

Exact same for me, only my salaries are double. In fact, I've decided not to spend on scouting anymore in hopes to keep finances closer to even, esp in case I get bumped early from either the cup or B3

However, imagine smacking this 40% cut to the teams in your Div II or III and you'll see the issues faced with smaller countries here.

DII or DIII teams have 1/2 or 1/3 the season ticket holders, so I'd much rather get double or triple attendance over getting an a 15% or 30% reduction in tax. It's not even close.

Last edited by brian at 8/19/2008 10:16:58 AM

It does seem I have lost sanity and reason, but I do not see it to be a reason to diverge from the initial reason I posted so soon in the thread. If you wish to discuss my transfer revenue, I will be happy to explain the circumstances to you. I had intended to discuss the effect of the economic changes on teams from smaller nations.

If certain aspects of my team management is called into question, perhaps it is best if I put it to rest lest the discussion sidetracks again.

Being an inside trainer, I need to buy outside players. This money comes from the sale of trainees. Such as my Center. But for 3.5M, the skill level of outside players on offer is much lower to the skill level of a similar inside player due to the facotrs of supply and demand. And there has not been a suitable candidate in the past week. Now back to the case at hand.

Thank you for the feedback.
I've got a couple of friends in the lower leagues of my country so I'll be keeping an eye out on their situation. Season ticket holders seem key to the point made here, it will be at least 5 games worth of data before we get to see a clearer picture of the effect.

Now back to the case at hand.

Which is that your situation is bigger burden this season then those from top divisions from other countries (I should fit that bill)

I bet that if I don't win the B3 (good bet there), you're going to pull in at least 25% more profit (backing out player purchases/sales) then I will by the end of the season. That's conservative too, expect that your profit will be closer to double mine.


Last edited by brian at 8/19/2008 10:23:08 AM

No hard feelings, but we are at the case at hand.

I am far from criticising your management skills and I would probably not find a reason to do so. I have the same reasons for selling inside players by the way.

I simply disagree with your initial statements. Therefore I have said that I do not find the position of a D.I Team in a small country disadvantageous. I rather envy your situation. The points in my posts were naming some reasons why.

And sorry, but if you call 3.5 mio. miniscule you are simply ignoring the common team's financial structure. No matter what the transfer market says, in 08/2008 3.5 mio. is still a lot of money.

Edit: in brief, you have the advantages of being a D.I team at the cost of a low Division team. No disadvantage there...

Last edited by Pallu at 8/19/2008 10:26:23 AM

Again, no need for imagination here. I have the same wage bill to be competitive in D.II Germany but I have lesser income from PR and Arena (25% instead of 40% cut but less visitors/lower prices).

Your data from Div II Germany is inaccurate. Your lesser income from Arena is because most of you haven't expanded your arenas. You sellout most of the time, especially your luxury seats.

3.5M is not miniscule, but it is not part of my weekly income. It is unrelated and isanther topic altogether.

Last edited by Sparkle at 8/19/2008 10:28:25 AM