BuzzerBeater Forums

I'll put here a small conversation I had with BB_Mark:

I had sent this message to him:

I simply dont understand and dont agree with the Enthusiasm thing.

An example: A team better than the other one, playing at home, decides to go into the game using TIE, and LOSES the game.

How can a team could have more enthusiasm after losing a game that he could win easily if playing by normal enthusiasm?
A loss like that wont make them tougher, that was supposed to make players feel ASHAMED for choosing wrong type of enthusiasm.

In my opinion, the enthusiasm would only increase if the team wins the game, not on losing times...

After changing the enthusiasm thing on playoffs, this difference got exponencially increased...

This kind of thing make some conferences and leagues be simply IMPOSSIBLE to win, once there is a far better team than the other contenders. Do u agree?

He answered me:

Hi Leo,
Thank you for your interesting suggestions.
Perhaps "Enthusiasm" is a bit of a misnomer -- what we really mean is a combination of enthusiasm, effort, and motivation.

If a team has to play really hard for a game, even if they win, they will be worn out for future games. If a team Takes it Easy against a far superior team, they will be in better shape for future games, and will be happier than if they had tried very hard and still lost against the stronger opponent.

I agree with THIS situation. But what if they lose a game for a far INFERIOR team? WHy in hell will they be happier than if they win the game?That makes no sense!

Playing TIE means that your players are not putting their full effort into the game. It is much more likely that you will lose a game that you are only playing half-heartedly -- selecting TIE means that the coach tells the players that one of the primary purposes of the game is to rest up and not play too hard, since there is an important match coming up in the near future. Since the players' motivation wasn't to win, they become more enthusiastic for future games because they've had a more relaxing week leading up to the next game -- being a basketball player full time can be stressful!

How come? Players motivation is to win, always....

Another point: If the players are supposed to rest up and not play too hard, why is it better to play using TIE in high levels than playing in Normal ? Arent they supposed to rest while in TIE?
So,this advantage might just appear when player changes from TIE to normal, using high enthusiasm.

> This kind of thing make some conferences and leagues be simply IMPOSSIBLE to win, once there is a far better team than the other contenders. Do u agree?

Certainly not... even the best teams in the game can be beaten. If you CT against them with the home-court advantage (especially if they TIE), almost any team can be beaten.

Lets say 2 equally strong teams reach the finals: Team1 with enthusiasm level 15, Team2 with level 8.
There's no reason for them to play, cuz this huge difference will decide the games.
This playoff different enthusiasm is killing the game.
Old way let a team with lower enthusiasm draw an strategy that could beat the stronger one. Nowadays, that's impossible.

And If i CT against a best team during regular season, i'm doomed to fail to reach finals, most of the times.

What do u guys think of that? I would like to see/read some opinion



Last edited by leomartins at 10/3/2008 6:36:47 PM

I do think it unlikely that many players would have anything less than maximum enthusiasm for late round playoff games in RL. However, if there is an especially strong team playing then the only hope anyone really has of knocking him off is a CT vs a TIE, or to hope they have burned up to much enthusiasm getting to the finals or something. (see Canada Naismith league)

But in Playoff we cant use normal enthusiasm....it now has a 'playoff enthusiasm'.
And no one plays TIE in finals. Not anymore.
SO, CT vs TIE is impossible.

Am i supposed to base my strategy in a hope? I dont think so.

Whatever, I misspoke. However I think you get my point, which hasn't changed. So nitpicking aside, the enthusiasm system is what gives a lesser team a chance to beat a better one.

If you are operating from the weaker position, which from you post seems to be the case, then your stated preference would mean you had no hope in hell of beating a significantly better team.

Why would you want to remove your only chance? It almost seems that you want to "base your strategy" in no hope at all.

In my opinion this enthuziasm system is completely realistic, even with those issues after playing TIE and losing to an inferior team. You are really living in the clouds if you think that real players, nowdays that are playing leagues around the world, give a shit about their teams and fans, belive me they are here only for the money, and when the coach tell them that they should play some game without puting full effort they are all for it, because player would get the same salary with less effort, because the probability of star player injuries is lower, probability that player from the bench will play more is higher, and more...

So, as I said, I'm quite satisfied with ent system, especially with playoff settings, because in this way some non deserving team wouldn't suprise stronger team, for reason that teams are not divided equally between conferences, ie. in one conference you have one strong team and seven lousy teams, while in other you have 4-4 situation, so those team would have to put more effort and in the end are wunerable and will lose from that one team that hasn't put same amount of effort just because he has more luck with opponents.

Last edited by LA-Kasie K. at 10/4/2008 6:07:40 AM

So, as I said, I'm quite satisfied with ent system, especially with playoff settings, because in this way some non deserving team wouldn't suprise stronger team

But that makes the game highly predictable. Why will they play, if we know the stronger will win everytime?

Surprise is something that happens all the time when it comes to sports... without surprising results, the game just become mechanic and boring.

so those team would have to put more effort and in the end are wunerable and will lose from that one team that hasn't put same amount of effort just because he has more luck with opponents.

Luck? Is this all about luck? I dont think so. Luck is a small part of the game, but u cant base the game only on luck. Using your example, a 'unlucky' team would never have the chance to win a championship, as he will be vulnerable everytime he gets into playoffs.
That will make the player feel bored or sth like that, and sooner or later he will abandon the game. Why would he stay in a game that he has no chance of winning?

I think you overestimate the size of enthusiasm effects. Yes it will deliver a few percent better performance in some areas for each additional level of enthusiasm, but a clearly superior team with lower enthusiasm will still win.

U really sure of that? I dont see it happening... and i 'll tell u why:

If there's a clearly superior team, this team will play TIE all the time, so, its enthusiasm will always be high.

Enthusiasm effects, in my opinion, should only appear when the team is playing with Normal or CT.
The fact that makes high ent teams play better in TIE than someone playing Normal it's completely unreal.

If you are operating from the weaker position, which from you post seems to be the case, then your stated preference would mean you had no hope in hell of beating a significantly better team.

In fact, i'm not on weaker position. I dont see why my position is important, btw. I think it's a forum that we can discuss some topics, no matter my position.

When we had old entusiasm system, the hope of beating a better team was real. Now, there's no hope. Stronger team will always be the champion.

Why would you want to remove your only chance? It almost seems that you want to "base your strategy" in no hope at all.

No matter u try, if u get in finals with less enthusiasm than your opponent (and your opponent has a team as good as yours), you are going to lose. Playoff enthusiasm doesnt let players choose to use the enthusiasm u have in only one or 2 games.

There is no lack of surprising results, believe me, or just check out my last cup game, or last year playoff game that I lost, or since I'm U21 coach, check out the stats of the only red score game this season. There is plenty of surprising opportunities in this game, and that is why it is so good, I really like every aspect of the game...with one exception, slow or inadequate loading that happens sometimes.