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I think shooting percentages are too low across the board, regardless of tactics, and should increase slightly. Evidence?

Here are the shooting percentages of the best team in the BB world, BC Toroo:
FG: 45.3% 3PT: 29.3% FT: 68.1%

Here are the top 4 teams in my country's best league, the NBBA:
King Drive Ballers: FG: 41.5% 3PT: 24.4% FT: 68.5%
Ice Storm BC: FG: 43.3% 3PT: 21.9% FT: 75.4%
Chicago Bulls: FG: 41.8% 3PT: 30.2% FT: 55.3%
Salisbury Auerbachs: FG: 38.7% 3PT: 28.9% FT: 73.4%

Here are the top 3 in Italia Serie A:
venividiveni fb: FG: 39.6% 3PT: 31.2% FT: 64.4%
Springlfield Drunkers: FG: 42.9% 3PT: 24.1% FT: 72.2%
Boston Celtics: FG: 45.6% 3PT: 32.9% FT: 61.0%

And the top 3 in Espana ACBB:
River Legends: FG: 43.7% 3PT: 33.1% FT: 66.9%
atl estacion: FG: 43.6% 3PT: 28.8% FT: 62.1%
Granada Stars: FG: 45.4% 3PT: 32.9% FT: 71.2%

By comparison, the worst shooting teams in the NBA this season, the Clippers and the Timberwolves, both shot 44.13% from the field, while the best team, Phoenix, hit 50.38% of its shots. So at the highest level, shooting percentages from the field in general are a couple of points higher than they are in BB.

A lot of this is due to the discrepancy in 3-point shooting. The worst 3-point shooting team in the NBA, the 76ers, is as good or better than most BB teams at 32%. Most NBA teams shoot upwards of 35% from 3-point range, which as you can see from the above is territory uncharted in BB.

FT percentage is also significantly lower than in the NBA, with the best of the teams in BB above unable to break the NBA's top 20, in which every team shoots better than 76% from the stripe.

One would think that after eight seasons, the top leagues would have a balance that's not entirely dissimilar to pro teams, although perhaps the players would be slightly less talented skillwise overall. Low FT percentages are explicable, since I'm sure less effort has gone into training FT than into training shooting. But at the top level of the game, players should be good enough by now that a consistent 45% from the floor is the norm for a decent shooter, and 3-point threats can hit 40% or so from downtown. Since it's not, I conclude that defense is generally overvalued against jump shots. I suggest the engine be adjusted to correct for this.

Edit: Exploration shows that there is at least one team that shoots 50%+ from the floor(53418). Even so, they only shoot 33.4% from three, and 68% from the line.

Last edited by crimedevil at 5/25/2009 1:43:11 AM

the point is that no team can afford to have all good player course of finances... there is no team that could afford to have starting 5 - 150k/w, 120k/w, 80k/w, 40k/w, 40k/w... and couple of sub those would be equal to the starters... that in reality is possible... So that`s why even top teams are not doing so good... Cause in reality top teams shouldn`t think about training players, those should think about how to win in any cost and only lower divs teams should train and sell players for top teams, so that`s how those would make money that those would be able to to compete in their divs ant even promote and get a chance get rid of training pupils and just fight with improving their best players a bit...

but this is not reality so It`s not possible here for all of this to happen (=

Possibly true, but my point is simply that at every level, I think shooting percentages should be a couple of percentage points higher. I think the move to increase turnovers is the right way to go, and that there are currently a few too many scoring possessions per game. If turnovers are increased, and the number of possessions on which a team is able to score is reduced thereby, increased shooting percentages will keep the scores realistic. There's no need to adjust skill levels, training or anything else that affects salary. The die roll between the shooter and the defender just needs to be slightly adjusted to favor the defender a bit less.

yeah I haven`t seen in reality team that wouldn`t make at least 10 turnovers per game... I think average should be something around 15 turnovers per game.

Absolutely. In addition, there should probably be a few more fouls on inside shots, which could reduce FGM inside without reducing percentages; then there would be additional room for shooting to be tweaked upward.

One of my major beefs is that it seems like percentages are roughly the same from division to division. This is unrealistic. Shooting guards in Division I should be able to average about 45% from the floor even against Div. I defenses. As skill levels come down in lower divisions, players should not shoot quite as well even though the relative strength of their shooting against the defense is unchanged. The simple fact is that even mediocre players at the NBA level are outstanding shooters whose percentages only hover in the low 40's because of the stifling defenses they have to play against. And even in the NBA, as we see all the time, great defense can't stop great shooting. Here on Earth we call him Kobe.

again with these "realistic" "unrealistic" "kobe this, lebron that"....
FG% is avg 43 not 45... omg how will we survive...
it's the same for you and for your opponents...
who cares if you score 86 or 90 points average per game when the same change will be in effect for your opponents...
and the different % of FG based on division? terrible idea... some countries have great teams in third divisions while other have awful in first or second... so a third division team from germany or italy or spain or idk where should have worse % even if it has way better players than a first division team from Morocco?

and another thing... if you remember last year BB ran some simulations of NBA games and they were off by a couple of points +/- ... so the difference isn't really that big...
all the complains I hear on this forums boil down to : I want more money, I want better players to begin with, I want to shoot 75% for 3 points...
and I guess you also want belt of titan strength +10 and a cloak of invulnerability....

the point is that everybody forgets that players getting wage here that depends on their skill, not on their statistics and performance... So it`s almost no difference what the stats is cause the point is to win games not have nice looking stats...


But what I don`t wanna see then my player shoots 7-32 in a game then he should rest on the bench after first series of 5 misses in row... At least to see some job our coach are doing during the game.

with that I agree completely...
I too get frustrated when I see a player miss 7 times in a row and still be left on the court... he should chill a bit on the bench, at least a couple of minutes before he comes back in... if for nothing else then for our nerve's sake

again with these "realistic" "unrealistic" "kobe this, lebron that"....
FG% is avg 43 not 45... omg how will we survive...
it's the same for you and for your opponents...
who cares if you score 86 or 90 points average per game when the same change will be in effect for your opponents...
and the different % of FG based on division? terrible idea... some countries have great teams in third divisions while other have awful in first or second... so a third division team from germany or italy or spain or idk where should have worse % even if it has way better players than a first division team from Morocco?

Geez, I guess since everything is perfect as it is, we may as well delete the Suggestions forum entirely?

The point of the game engine is to be reflective of real life, and in real life players shoot a couple of points better. I don't really care about performances of individual teams. I also don't give a crap if it means my opponents shoot better as well.

And you misunderstand my idea, which has nothing to do with divisions. Perhaps I was less than clear -- I think that in real life, players with lower skill levels in shooting and range would be more affected by defenders than players with higher skill levels. Thus, players with top-rank shooting skills could face defenders of equivalent skill levels (as in the NBA) and still hit 45% or so from the floor; but players with lesser skills facing defenders with similarly lesser abilities would not manage to put up a percentage quite that good.

Since I don't know how the game engine works, I am forced to offer suggestions based on known end results, i.e. statistics. But if you don't like to read other people's ideas about how to make this game better, maybe you should spend your time cruising some other forum. At least try not to be unnecessarily rude and negative.

I apologize if I sounded rude and negative... I was more sarcastic than rude
It's just that I had to vent a little because every day I see 10 suggestions that make no sense at all...
Maybe the shooting % should be a bit higher, maybe it's good as it is..

Low division players don't always have low skill levels... and well if they do, they play against lower lvls of defense... and think about new players... they make a team, start playing the game in division 4 or 5 and have a 20% FG accuracy? who would continue playing after that... would be frustrating

once again sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you or being rude... I was sure I put a at the end of my post to indicate the lightheartedness of my post

I apologize if I sounded rude and negative... I was more sarcastic than rude
It's just that I had to vent a little because every day I see 10 suggestions that make no sense at all...
Maybe the shooting % should be a bit higher, maybe it's good as it is..

Apology accepted, but again, my point is that in real life, shooting percentages are higher. Either the game is supposed to model real life, or it isn't.

Low division players don't always have low skill levels... and well if they do, they play against lower lvls of defense... and think about new players... they make a team, start playing the game in division 4 or 5 and have a 20% FG accuracy? who would continue playing after that... would be frustrating

I don't think you're grasping the scope of the changes I'm suggesting -- I don't think anything should change by "division." I simply think that when one guard with all "respectable" stats faces another guard with all "respectable" stats, experience being equal, the "die roll" (for lack of a better term) should result in a couple more made jump shots than it does now. I also think that the higher the offensive player's skills get, the more the "die roll" should weigh toward the shot being made. So guards in lower divisions would still be decent shooters at 40% or so.

Big men shoot better in BB, but I think their percentages still aren't quite right, and there also ought to be more fouls called in the post. I don't know how that would work into shooting. I have started to see a few more "and ones" on dunk attempts, which feels more realistic.