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I don't know for sure that it doesn't change, however I'm almost certain that it can't be changed by anything the manager can do so that is why it isn't shown. All other skills can be changed via what the manager decides. For example training JS will increase JS and the secondaries. And simply putting a player on the court increases experience. But I doubt that playing extra or less minutes has any effect on the aggressiveness of the player.

My other reasoning would be that aggressiveness is meant to simulate the personality of the player, and just like in real life, personality doesn't really change (obviously there are exceptions in real life but I'm talking in general).

Also, my old PF that I'm sure you remember (Edward weird last name here) was a very aggressive player and constantly got 5 or 6 fouls a match, and he was a really old player, so either he was really really really aggressive when he was younger (which I doubt), or his aggressiveness stayed the same throughout his career hence why he was still aggressive at an old age.

But as I said before, I'm not 100% sure and never seen a BB confirm it so this is all just a theory and speculation.

The only problem with showing this stat is that people may stop training these aggresive players even though they can be very good. Or they may just sell for less which could be a good thing to a team that puts the effort into making him good.

Well, personally I would have paid 1M more if I knew that my player won't make fouls. In some other games, like in hattrick, this stat can be seen by managers.
These non-aggressive players price would increase and aggressive players price would decrease. Result would be +-0.

But.. My money was already spent so.. maybe in couple of years I could benefit from this if it was added.

Well you can watch some matches with that player before purchase. If he foul more by few, I wouldnt care, but I suppose this is another little thing which can make a difference between great and best manager.

Let's keep the worthiness of having a Aggressiveness stat for a different thread. Anyone who's seen my thoughts on the matter will know that I once took great pleasure in putting a thug in my lineup, so keep in mind that there are times when Aggressiveness has it's supporters (not that I have a preference for Aggressive players or recognize what a drag it is when your best player's always in foul trouble).

That being said, I actually like having hidden attributes, particularly Aggressiveness. It's a little strange in some ways to know anyone's attributes, as if players don't have ups and downs, or that scouting is so perfect. I would actually like to see a margin of error put into our knowledge of the attributes, but probably makes me a bit of an extremist. Rather than rant about the silliness of quantifying attributes, as if our players were Dungeons & Dragons characters, I'll just point out that we all have the ability to scouting of our own. Sure you can't see the actual Aggressive Attribute, but you can look at a player's stat history and see how many fouls a player has. I know that if I was about to spend my teams entire savings on one player, I'd look into something like that. It stinks having to learn that lesson the hard way, but that's the leg work that separates the good managers from the great managers.

Now if only we could tell whether or not a player was chaotic good or lawful evil, or how high their Wisdom or Dexterity is...

Yes, yes of course we can detect stats of those old players. :) Has anyone actually read the first posts before posting their "wisdom". I was more interested of those 18y players straight from the draft (as said earlier). You can't see their stats. As I'm one of these managers who like to "build" my guys (at least now), not to buy some 25-28y oldies.

But, well.. this idea doesn't get the wind below it like I would have hoped. Someone are just born to suffer with aggressive players and others are luckier.

Off topic:
Choosing class: Sorcerer
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Rolling for Charisma... 1

You can usually tell within the first month if a player is really Aggressive or not. Poor defense will cause more fouls, sure, but if a trainee is racking up the fouls a really fast rate, it doesn't take the entire half of a season to figure it out. And so what if you can't see the attribute level? It's not like you're seeing any attribute numbers before the draft.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Eh... What Napauttaja is trying to say is, that if you want fresh trainee and buy 18y one from transfer list, you CAN'T say if it's aggressive or not. And when player is in transferlist, you don't have much time to see it playing (most likely it isnt playing at all). So... you buy expensive 18y trainee, hall of famer and then notice that it's foul-addict. This thing should be included in scouting. When they do "testgames" for team and you notice some ratings, you should also be able to tell does player play aggressively or not.

"Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you...

...with experience."

Last edited by skeletappi at 2/10/2011 5:13:22 PM

So... don't pay so much for an unknown commodity!

"I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything." -David St. Hubbins

I see someone having elitist attitude here, maybe it's because of so cool GM-status.

That still doesnt make it more realistic. In real life if you are scouting people, you will also consider personality of players when you watch their matches. So if potential kids come to your club showing their skills and when you interview them etc. (reading in scouting pages btw if you didnt notice!), you really should have some kind of view about their personality as well.

If not, maybe they should change content of those pages and let people know that "You will scout only skills and potential of players but we want to keep personality hidden! We want to keep some random factor in game!".

I really don't see reason why it must be so mysterious hidden factor, it's just stupid. It doesnt add depth to this game or give any fun elements. Sure it's ok to watch old players and see how much they do fouls, but same should be doable somehow to youngsters as well.

Also, you can give higher bonuses in something for those players that are more aggressive. So people don't stop training them, but it would be up to manager to decide what he wants to do.

Just my 5 cents, but I guess that's too much for elitist attitude to read anyway.



Last edited by skeletappi at 2/10/2011 11:10:48 PM

I don't think my posts are personal, so I don't know why you are taking them as such. This is a discussion regarding Suggestions, which are made for the purpose of the betterment of the game. Let's just stick to that. By all means it's great to get ideas brought to the table where we, the users of the game, can kick the ideas around and the game developers will use our discussion as part of their consideration for game improvements.

I think Aggressiveness as it is treated here is considered more of an innate character trait rather than something that gets "trained". The skills that are trained have an "aggressive" component by nature, for example rebounding and defense (and most of the skills for that matter) require a player to be aggressive. But it's really hard to teach a person to be Aggressive in the BB sense. Perhaps part of the problem here is that the Aggressiveness here is related to body contact and fouling and not to precision. Until about the middle of last December, Derrick Rose was famous for not getting to the free throw line too often. He has always been "aggressive" in attacking the lane, but he would go for the best shot rather than try to draw the foul. Has he suddenly become more "aggressive" in the BB sense of the term these last couple of months? Well if he did, then he should also be committing more fouls, too. I'd just say he maybe improved his Driving skill (though resulting in more FTs rather than a higher FG% on layups).

Can Aggressiveness be scouted in a hormonally-charged 18-year-old? If this could really be assessed, maybe the likes of Eddie Curry, would have been scouted differently (who would have thought that skinny Tyson Chandler would prove to be by far more aggressive than Curry?). At 18, it's not easy to tell the difference between teen frustration/immaturity with long-term aggression issues (I wonder what Dennis Rodman and Ron Artest were like at 18?). That's my opinion.

And finally, do you really want this game to be as predictable and robotic as possible? Do you also want 3-weeks' notice before a player is scheduled for an injury, or to know when your best shooter is going to go cold in a game? Sometimes, upsets happen. Sometimes, young players full of potential turn out to be busts.

"In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher'." - Carl Spackler