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Ok Kobe has championships that does not mean he cant be compared to anyone. They compare Dwight and Shaq they compare Lebron and Jordan, hell they compare Kobe and Jordan. Dirk and Bird. Number of Titles has nothing to do with the game play comparison. And when you listen to Interviews even Kobe's and I quote, "No one can really guard me Haha, but if I had to say it would be Carmelo, he has a grind it out game and his length helps a lot." Other players to say melo was Wade, Peirce

If Melo was a lockdown defender... then the Nuggets... when they had, Camby, Melo, Iverson, etc. Should have been able to make a finals, possibly win 1.

Thats having a lockdown defender, 2 of the best 5 scorers in the league, and the 2nd best defensive player in league (behind at the time Ben Wallace) in Camby.


you are failing to address Emirical evidence that Carmello is a "lock down defender" and instead just stating the opinions of a few select samples of people.

For Example: compare Kobe's numbers and %s when he was guarded by Ron Artest, vs Carmello.

Dont take things out of context. Carmelo may have lock down defense but a team defense he lacks where the nuggets that season as many other seasons rarely ran a man defense. Where as but if you watch games in the areas where they did run man to man you tell me if your opinion does not change. I never said Melo was a better defensive player than Artest either. I however do understand your argument provided through the example. But what you fail to realize are the intangibles that come along with what may or may not have made Kobe chose Melo. Over even the fact that the only thing people hate about Artest is strength and hand speed. Where as Melo may not surpass Artest there. But he does bring more that can irritate whoever he defends.

Lock down defense usually translates to good team defense. 9/10 times. Just saying.

Not really. Lock down usually translates to good man to man. For instance Pheonix Grant Hill great defender Phenoix as a team allowed to many points. Knicks Melo and Chandler Great defense Team allowed to many points. Boston Lock down Team Defense Man to man Rondo and KG great lockdown. Pierce decent Allen ASS!!

But they used Bradley a top 5 lockdown Defender. You forgot Shump for Knicks.

Not really. Lock down usually translates to good man to man. For instance Pheonix Grant Hill great defender Phenoix as a team allowed to many points. Knicks Melo and Chandler Great defense Team allowed to many points. Boston Lock down Team Defense Man to man Rondo and KG great lockdown. Pierce decent Allen ASS!!

Lock Down translates to man to man. If you can stay on 1 man, fight through screens, picks, cuts, curls, etc. and stay on your defender in man... then in team defenses where you switch, or zones, you're normally very solid at those as well. It doesn't reciprocate in great zone defenders are great man defenders (see Hasheem Thabeet, and Chris Anderson). Chandler is not great defense. The bar has just fallen that much in terms of defense at Centers. Right now, only Howard is truly, TRULY, a great defensive player at Center. But in the decline of centers where we no longer have, Ewings, Ilgauskas, Mutumbo, Yao Ming, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, Jermaine O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning, Elton Brand, Emeka Okafor. Many of these guys are past thier prime, retired, had injury problems, etc. Dwight Howard is the only one left.

Al Horford, not better than most those guys, Al jefferson, same deal, Andrew Bynum, not a defensive center at all, Amare not a known defensive star... When Nene, and Andrew Bogut are among the cream of the crop at your centers... can you honestly say that the position players are getting better?

Grant Hill has a bad knee, and is slower than most people at his position, sure he can defend in the half-court game, but his defense in transition is not so great.

Howard I still far from the only defensive center. As goofy as McGee may be he still is a pretty good defensive center. Not to mention Bogut i think you under rated him a bit defensively. Then you have good defensive center who may not show through blocks alters and steals but when you watch them you see the hassle they put opponents through like Perkins who was posterized lets eliminate that now. And other centers like Noah. You seen how he stepped up to guard Lebron that one series vs. Cleveland. And just any other people he is set to guard. Marc Gasol and Anderson Verajioa not sure on spelling, arent great defenders but provide a constant irritation and physical toughness which is what truly makes me like a center. Blocks which is what all the players you named excel at doesnt really constitute as a true center to me because although you get blocks which generally come from guards attempting to disrespect the size difference. Blocks dont meant you can guard the hoop from some one your own size. Like Okafor he was terrible one on one against big or bigger men everyone on the list you named are untouchable in that sense of the argument.

I know this is a bit off-topic but, when it's all said and done, would you want to be the guy who came off the bench and won a few titles or the superstar who never won any? Even if the person has better skills, did he win anything? I know nowadays you have copy Miami and form a superteam to win rings. But still, if they never won an NBA title, then their career wasn't successful. Look at Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing. Both were excellent bigs throughout their careers. Both of them had good amounts of success. Both of them played in the NBA Finals. Both of them lost in the Finals. Ask anyone and they will tell you that both players' careers would've been more successful if they had won.

Last edited by Big Dogs at 8/25/2012 12:06:08 PM

Its lots of players like that today. I feel like your greatness should not be judged by the amount of rings you have but by your talent. Because look at Steve Nash no ring and he will retire ringless I do believe. Dirk just won a ring but didnt need one to still be considered the best shooting big man and to receive the label unguardable. But you have tons of players who's names wont be remembered who has ring even starters not just bench like Carlos Arroyo, or Shannon Brown, Luke Walton, Glen Davis who is still a good player but people often forget he has a ring.

Robert Horry, one of the best player ever by those people's arguments.