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We could see that often on players under 21y or in U21, they play often just 1 full game in a week 48+ minutes (to get full training minutes) and that's all.

Those players don't have 9 or 10 ST like NT players. Also there is the consistency of minutes over weeks which I did mention. 48>48>48 is better than 48>68>48, but as I said it's MORE of a reason to give high ST players MORE minutes: what's going to happen next week without a garbage time game? Will you manage to give him low 50 minutes again? I don't think so.

I've had double pops on players who played 36 minutes (and 0 the previous 2 weeks). Do I think it's relevant to this discussion? No.

I must just repeat it, there is nowhere written that ideal is an average point between 48 and 75, it's just minutes between 48 and 75, there is no average word there

Neither does it say that 48 or 75 is the same. So we're back to square one. You keep your view on this, but you shouldn't go around saying your interpretation of the English game manual is correct when you have no case just by looking at the wording, you have no proof or even anecdotal evidence of it being correct.

The way all other formulas work in this game it makes no sense that being at 48, 60 or 75 minutes is irrelevant to GS. And the fact that GS is impacted by ST (as stated by BBs) pretty much guarantees this because either the whole range is different for different levels of stamina (that would be the logical conclusion from your view) or different levels of stamina have a different sweet spot within the range indicated in the manual (which is my view).

Perhaps we should ask a BB or EGM to make it clear that 48, 60 and 75 are not equally likely to result in the same GS update. So that there are no misunderstandings.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/10/2018 7:35:51 AM

Nachtmahr and Joseph Ka did some research on this apparently (270505.46)

I'm still looking for the official statement about GS being affected by ST, but 3 years ago was a pretty acknowledged fact that a few people in that thread referred to.

EDIT:
(284516.3)
Here you go from Marin himself. You can see that he says that GS depends on ST somewhat and he is referring to 'ideal minute distribution'. A few posts later he even said that 48 is not really optimal either.

I hope you are satisfied now, as this definitely settles it, and we can now stop this charade.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/10/2018 8:11:02 AM

Some of them have 8 stamina, that's not high for you?
As I said I'm a NT coach like 16 seasons, you think my players there got low stamina?

You just repeat that ST affects GS, yes, but in what way? Your player can play few minutes more to still stay in this "ideal circle" of minutes.

Maybe I'm wrong, that's my opinion, but when someone say to me that ideal numbers are between 1 and 5 (include those), I will tell him that those numbers are 1,2,3,4 and 5, you don't?
The same thing is with the ideal numbers between 48 and 75.

Would love if a BB or EGM could tell us more about this.

You give me this post of Marin:

Game shape depends marginally on stamina too, so high stamina players can actually have high minutes and keep a high game shape continually. Massage specialty also helps. Actually, I can't say what is the ideal minute distribution would be (as I would be revealing too much) but 75 isn't it.

Take a look at the bold part. That's how stamina effects GS.
He also say that he don't want to tell us the ideal minutes, so we can't know, we can just guess if 56 is better then 48, is 70 better then 65 and etc...

I'm not telling that my opinion is the right, it's just opinion, and no one of us don't know how exactly GS works and what is "ideal".

Regards mate.

lol ok, bye. Everyone reading this thread hopefully has the correct understanding now with Marin's 2 posts, Nachtmahr's post and all the others included in that thread.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/10/2018 9:11:30 AM

Hey Leonidas.

The question with the GS interested me too. So in 2010 (yeah, long ago) I started to check the minutes and game shape of different teams and players. What I did (until 2012), was writing down the minutes per week and the development of the game shape.

Some of the results:
- holding a player to 48 minutes per week, almost guarantees you GS 8.
- there is still a variable, which can influence the GS to 7 or 9
- but for for more than 85% of the time, you will end up with GS 8
- between 48 and 61 minutes per week, the possibility of GS 9 rises
- a player with constant 61 minutes per week has the highest probability to have GS 9
- JosephKA came to the result (his own analysis, completely independent from mine) that 60.7 minutes per week have the highest success rate for GS 9
- there is no guarantee for GS 9, even with the 61 minutes!
- between 61 and 75 minutes, the probability decreases, but there is still a great chance for GS 9

What the analysis showed, is the same thing you are saying. Keep your player between 48 and 75 minutes and you will end up with GS 8 or 9 (almost every time). Because of the unknown variable in the GS formula, there is still a possibility for GS 7. But it's small.

If I had to guess how the GS formula looks like, I would go with something like this:

(Minutes Week 1 x weighting factor a + Minutes Week 2 x weighting factor b + ... + Minutes Week N x weighting factor for week N) x random variable = GS

The GS would be calculated as a result of several weeks (we don't know how many) and a weighted factor for every week. The older weeks would get a weaker factor, the newer weeks a stronger one. And all of this is influenced by a random variable which can improve or decrease your GS. But this is just MY OPINION and not a fact or anything like that.

With the change of Stamina and the influence on the GS, I have no clue what this means to the results.

It could mean, that a ST 9 player can play 90 minutes per week and have the same probability for GS 9 like a ST 5 with 70 minutes. Or something completely different.

Like almost everything in BB, this is all on a speculation level. We have no hard facts from the BBs and we can only guess and try to come as close as possible to the truth.

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 5/10/2018 1:36:43 PM

Hello mate!
Thx for your reply, it's always interesting to hear other opinions or a research like yours.

That GS was always mysterious and I would love to hear more from BB-s.. but they don't talk much about it, just mention that range between 48 and 75... in the end, we all try to stay in that range and hope for a good GS

Best regards

You can scrap that. It's anecdotal evidence and it appears my current trainees have not followed that pattern necessarily.

That previous weeks or the current GS level (ie. lower GS requires progressively less optimal minutes to go up) has an impact is almost guaranteed. The strongest evidence are players who have 0>0>20 and they usually go up in GS. None of those minutes are anywhere near optimal. In the past I've seen even things like this (although that was only 2 weeks):
http://tinypic.com/r/2cf9ova/8

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/14/2018 7:55:02 AM