BuzzerBeater Forums

BB Canada > JO and Moon to Miami

JO and Moon to Miami

Set priority
Show messages by
This Post:
00
73015.11 in reply to 73015.9
Date: 2/15/2009 10:58:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1111
How can I possibly believe that Marion and O'Neal are worth the same? Well for starters their statistics are very similar and they're both the same age.

Why would I look at the stats from half of a season and base my analysis on it? Because that shows their current form and what they play like. You need to understand that they're both not what they used to be. This season's statistics are the best thing we have to compare.

Trust me, I am not alone lol. I agree with you that the draft pick was very unnecessary, but if you look at the players we lost and we gained I still think we lost there. I mean Moon was a decent 3 for us, and now we're barely going to use Banks. So now we're wasting money on Banks' salary and probably barely use him. When we did use Moon and he had such a low salary.

This Post:
00
73015.12 in reply to 73015.10
Date: 2/15/2009 11:01:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1111
Mate, if those were to be his statistics he wouldn't be playing in the NBA. I understand what you said about being compared to other NBA players, but Moon wouldnt be playing. He'd be warming left bench. And he wouldn't have been in the dunk contest either. And Miami wouldn't have wanted him.

Let's not forget that Moon is an exciting player who fans like to see. Bottom line I think that people think that Moon is worse than he is.

This Post:
00
73015.14 in reply to 73015.13
Date: 2/15/2009 7:10:22 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1111
He's not that bad mate.

And I agree about that. Of course there are players who can compete in the dunk contest, the thing is they spend all of their time practicing dunks so they aren't good enough to play in the NBA.

This Post:
00
73015.16 in reply to 73015.15
Date: 2/15/2009 8:27:20 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1111
Fair enough, opinions are opinions. :)

This Post:
00
73015.17 in reply to 73015.11
Date: 2/15/2009 9:08:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
Really. You are LOLing are you?

Lets take a poll and see how many people believe that O'Neal is as good as MArion is right now.

Is there anyone else here that would take O'Neal over Marion? If so lets here why.


What YOU need to understand is that O'Neal is a shell of his former self and is a slow it down player struggling on an up-tempo team. Marion needs to run to be effective and Miami almost never pushes the ball, despite having Wade. Not only that but Marion has been sharing duty with Beasley since they do many of the same things. It is hard to be effective playing your game when someone else plays the same game on your team.

Lets compare this year to the year most people think was his best 05-06. He is not that different a player player today despite the differences in stats..

His scoring is down about 9 points but there is more to it than that. This year he is attempting more than 6 shots less per game than that year. This is a direct result of not having Nash and sharing responsibilities with Beasley.

His shooting percentage is down from 05-06 but it is higher than every year he's ever had except 2. Not only that but his drop in percentage is almost precisely on par with the average drop in players shooting percentage after leaving Phoenix since Nash has been there. In other words he shoots the same as always but is not getting the same looks.

His rebounding is down but this can be directly attributed to that fact that he now plays mostly at the 3 spot, whereas in 05-06 he played the 4. Rebounds are much harder to come by at the 3.

Finally, he is playing about 4 minutes less per game. That accounts for a 10% drop statistically on its own.

The point of all this is that there is good reason to believe that in an up-tempo situation Shawn Marion can return to past form. He has possibly lost half a step but he still plays the same game he always did, he can still guard the 1-4 positions, and there is significant evidence that he can still be nearly as effective he was.

O'Neal has changed his game completely and that is the problem. He went from a beast under the basket to a 7 foot jumpshooter. He very well may be more effective for Miami than Toronto based on style of play, but he can not be anything like he was because his game no longer resembles what he once was.

So you can tell me to trust you all you want, and lol all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Marion is still an effective player and still has the ability to shine in the right system, while O'Neal looks nothing like himself.

Even the draft pick included in the trade is evidence that O'Neal not that player Marion is. Banks is a salary throw in, so essentially the trade is O'Neal, Moon, and a pick, for Marion. For this to be the case it would mean that both GMs agree that Marion is the better player. Do you really think you "understand" the game better than Colangelo and Pat Riley?

Oh one more thing - What would be the point of keeping Moon if Marion is on the team? Moon is essentially a very weak version of Marion, and would never see the floor again.

This Post:
00
73015.19 in reply to 73015.18
Date: 2/15/2009 11:30:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1111
Sorry dude, I can't be bothered to read that. To long lol.

This Post:
00
73015.20 in reply to 73015.19
Date: 2/16/2009 2:02:58 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1515
Yeah, much better to make snap judgments based on a 5 second glance of half a season worth of statistics.

Oh, and this:

I'm pretty unclear on why Banks and Moon were involved in the deal. And why give away Moon when we could've given away the likes of Solomon.


Banks' contract was needed to makes the salaries line up according to the CBA rules, and Banks was the player included because Toronto had to agree to take his contract in particular from Miami in partial exchange for getting the best player.

Moon was not a throw in like Solomon would have been because Miami needed a player to fill minutes at the 3 spot, so they likely insisted, and because there is no room for him on the Toronto roster with Marion around.

Last edited by TigerUnderGlass at 2/16/2009 2:18:53 AM

Advertisement