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Lets talk about SB

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From: minde

This Post:
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262742.101 in reply to 262742.100
Date: 11/13/2014 3:35:14 AM
No Good News
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
398398
Second Team:
Backyard Brawlers
So, in this thread the ID is the skill as the SB is in the other ones.. like least important.. So what if we tank on ID instead of IS? I mean, you usually say lets tank on IS and save money, so maybe lets save less and tank on ID? And defend 1-1 to minimise the open shots, as the OD and SB skills are for personal defence.. With such skillset we could play inside and outside tactics without worrying about GDP.. but.. 1-1 wouldn't let to increase the open shots for opponent, would it? If it would, he could hit like 90% of them with low team ID rating..
And another problem would be the training, as the ID is secondary skill for IS, RB and SB..

This Post:
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262742.103 in reply to 262742.100
Date: 11/13/2014 6:47:44 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Ok we seem to be in agreement.

I was mostly referring more to the point that unguarded shots are 'defended' by team ratings (Trainerman's theory). ID rating is mostly (if not entirely) generated by ID, so if that theory is correct the more unguarded shots you face, the better it would be to have ID over SB (marginal value and marginal cost being equal, which they are not, but that's another discussion).

This Post:
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262742.107 in reply to 262742.104
Date: 11/13/2014 9:10:41 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
Thanks

This Post:
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262742.108 in reply to 262742.95
Date: 11/13/2014 9:45:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
I don't know for sure. ID makes it harder to find a shooting spot inside the paint (and maybe close around it). But the main problem is: how exactly works a steal attempt inside the paint? Only OD, even for bigs? A combination of OD and ID and OD is more important? Or is ID more important? I would go with OD>>ID. The reason is that I have two bigs with similar ID and SB. One of them has OD 1 and the other one a lot more. And the one with more OD gets a lot of more steals. So even if ID is necessary, it has a really small influence.


I think it's probably all OD (or maybe OD + handling). Much like the players with 0 career assists and FT made, I am pretty sure I've run across players with 0 (or very few) lifetime steals. I suppose we couldn't know for sure if any ID is required unless we did tests with low level guys who were drafted maybe with strong OD and bare minimum ID, and had them defend big men, and I doubt that's useful enough information to make the test worth doing anyhow.


From: rigno

This Post:
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262742.111 in reply to 262742.104
Date: 11/17/2014 12:16:27 PM
Sea Urchins
Serie A
Overall Posts Rated:
6363
Hi to everbody!

I try to find the right direction of my BB-adventure and I like the way you look at SB.
I read this and other threads. I wrote some BB-mail to Nachtmahr too. I wanna be a part of this family

It's the defense against the players. With OD and ID you try to minimize the possible FG% for your opponent. During this time, OD and ID are more important than SB. That's what most of the teams play. But as soon as your opponent decides to shoot, you need SB. So you have actually three ways here:
1) go with ID>SB: you try to defend the player and don't give him a good shooting spot, the block isn't your aim
2) go with ID=SB: The kind of players I prefer and also have.
3) go with SB>ID: you leave your opponent more room to shoot and your main target is to block his shot. I think that's a dangerous option, because you could end up with given more open shots to your opponent because of the lack of ID

[...]

Balance is everything.

I spent a lot of time thinking about ID and SB connection and I don't know if the lack of ID is a problem if you could block your opponent. Also if ID is not enought to avoid a shot, how the same level of SB could block it?

So, as all of you say, the opponent's IS goes against our defender's ID and this one "let him" shoot n fields goals attempts if ID=x.
Of course if ID=x-1 the opponent will shoot at least one more time: n+1. With ID=x+1 we'll see n-1 attempts or less. Or better we'll not see
Then our defender try to block that shot and if we have a similar level of SB we'll probably see the same % of shots blocked (because the same level of IS goes against the same level of SB) but more points against. Here a stupid example: 1 block every 4 attempts (=25%) and 6 pt but 2 blocks every 8 attempts (=25% again) and 12pt. And personal fouls could increase too (= more free throw attempts). Not good at all, but I don't think that with ID=x-1 the opponent is going to take 4 more attempts.
We can agree that more ID is better but ID is not cheaper than SB: 1 level of ID costs a little more than 2 levels of SB. It's true!
Now with ID=x-1 I have more space (both wage and potential) to give him 2 more level of SB and I have a player that will tend to block more shots. In the example he needs to produce 3 more blocks but I say I overrate the plus of shots.
With more SB our defender will be capable to block more shots and will commit less fouls even if his opponent try to face him more times. Again, he will tend to block but if he is capable to do that he will have more success and commits less fouls.

You are not fully convinced? Let me try one more time.
Less attempts, because of our defender's ID, mean less shots but the opponent could pass to another player for a similar attempt and maybe this one is facing to someone not good enought. So I want that opponent has to go again and again on my blockshoter turning all of his attacks into a sort of isolation. I convert his offensive tactics in patient (all the shot to only one man) and I know how to control him especially if this one is not the better opponent.

It make sense?

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