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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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122310.106 in reply to 122310.103
Date: 12/16/2009 6:09:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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you have an advantage of .1 points per possesion. would you rather keep that advantage over 60 possesions, or would you rather have a .06 points per possession average over 100 possesions?

Then the issue is quantitative. Against a bad team, do you really think playing Base vs Push is worth 40 possessions? In our 4 Base games during the Americas, we averaged 73.5 possessions, and had 86 when we played Push. In return for those 12.5 possessions, our PP100 average dropped from 117 to 106. What that means is that it was worth a net increase of 5 points to our offense. And remember, when we get 13 more possessions, so do they. So we get 5 more points, they get 13 more possessions. Does that sound like a good trade-off to you?

1) what difference is there between free throw shooting rates at home vs on the road

Seriously?

None. Last year, home free throw shooting in upper US divisions during the first week was 11674 - 17260, 68%. Road shooting was 11144 - 16289, 68%.

This Post:
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122310.107 in reply to 122310.105
Date: 12/16/2009 6:09:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
My competitive edge is in tactical selection, and lineup slection, often with inferior salaries, and slightly inferior players.

I have consistently overachieved for my talent level

I realize this is is an indictment of my team building abilities, but i fully acknowledge i have had one truly catastrophic team building event, and 3 mid-sized ones (including probably the purchase of ortega)

National team management does not involve selling players at the right time for the maximum price, and does not involve managing minutes to optiimize training, the two things i am probably the worst at.

It does involve tactical selection and lining up the ideal team to win, things i am relatively strong at, and where i feel i have an edge in.




This Post:
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122310.108 in reply to 122310.106
Date: 12/16/2009 6:14:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
you have an advantage of .1 points per possesion. would you rather keep that advantage over 60 possesions, or would you rather have a .06 points per possession average over 100 possesions?

Then the issue is quantitative. Against a bad team, do you really think playing Base vs Push is worth 40 possessions? In our 4 Base games during the Americas, we averaged 73.5 possessions, and had 86 when we played Push. In return for those 12.5 possessions, our PP100 average dropped from 117 to 106. What that means is that it was worth a net increase of 5 points to our offense. And remember, when we get 13 more possessions, so do they. So we get 5 more points, they get 13 more possessions. Does that sound like a good trade-off to you?

1) what difference is there between free throw shooting rates at home vs on the road

Seriously?

None. Last year, home free throw shooting in upper US divisions during the first week was 11674 - 17260, 68%. Road shooting was 11144 - 16289, 68%.


your math is off.

i count 99 possessions against uruguay in push the ball.

if youre looking at points scored on the positional basis, and using different opponetns as comparisons, then you're not seeing things objectively, or correctly.

anyway. thats all for now.


This Post:
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122310.109 in reply to 122310.108
Date: 12/16/2009 6:16:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
228228
I wasn't counting offensive rebounds as new possessions. But sure, if you want to, then the # of possessions gained by an up-tempo offense is 5.25, which is actually a smaller gain than the 12.5 I had suggested initially.

Last edited by wozzvt at 12/16/2009 6:17:57 PM

This Post:
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122310.110 in reply to 122310.109
Date: 12/16/2009 6:21:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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i wasnt counting offensive rebounds either

its fg + ft/2 + to


This Post:
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122310.111 in reply to 122310.110
Date: 12/16/2009 6:42:47 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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i wasnt counting offensive rebounds either

its fg + ft/2 + to

Exactly, and when you do this (also subtracting out ORs), you get 5.25 extra possessions in the Push game.

But quibbling over the exact numbers aside, your exampled claimed that we were missing out on 40 possessions. That's an astonishingly high number. Using this possession calculation, we actually GAIN 5.5 points scored per game, while also giving our opponent 5.25 FEWER possessions.

edit to add: The # of possessions is tricky since we only have one Push game, but the 5.25 is actually remarkably close to an old study someone (Dr Jan Itor perhaps, actually) did that found base was worth 84.8 possessions, and push was worth 90.4. There's a pretty good (though old) thread about this stuff on the offsite forum for anyone who's interested.

Last edited by wozzvt at 12/16/2009 6:47:17 PM

From: Harper
This Post:
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122310.112 in reply to 122310.111
Date: 12/16/2009 6:50:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3434
If you could not vote for yourself, which candidate would you vote for (nobody is an option) and why.

This Post:
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122310.113 in reply to 122310.111
Date: 12/16/2009 7:06:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
i wasnt counting offensive rebounds either

its fg + ft/2 + to

Exactly, and when you do this (also subtracting out ORs), you get 5.25 extra possessions in the Push game.

But quibbling over the exact numbers aside, your exampled claimed that we were missing out on 40 possessions. That's an astonishingly high number. Using this possession calculation, we actually GAIN 5.5 points scored per game, while also giving our opponent 5.25 FEWER possessions.

edit to add: The # of possessions is tricky since we only have one Push game, but the 5.25 is actually remarkably close to an old study someone (Dr Jan Itor perhaps, actually) did that found base was worth 84.8 possessions, and push was worth 90.4. There's a pretty good (though old) thread about this stuff on the offsite forum for anyone who's interested.



yes, the example was something of an exaggeration.

the numbers i have are bigger than a gap of 6 though, and smaller than 40.


This Post:
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122310.114 in reply to 122310.112
Date: 12/16/2009 7:08:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
If you could not vote for yourself, which candidate would you vote for (nobody is an option) and why.


Doesn't look like stogey is running, or I would vote for him. He has sort of a joke speech, but as a manager he's had huge results, and has a great sense of the moment.




This Post:
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122310.116 in reply to 122310.114
Date: 12/16/2009 7:11:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
112112
Thats 100% avoiding Harper's question. Out of the current candidate who would you vote for.

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