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I've just written a post that could add something to the discussion[message=262742.37 ]

I'll paste the main point here:

It is basketball game simulation but most of all game based on economy. Most of players are trying to achieve one thing: best possible results for given budget or from the other perspective pay as little as possible to achieve given sport result.

So I would like to add one more thing to the list of problems to be dealt with:

Tanking should be less profitable.

It kills very often competition. Makes many games boring - making people less committed.

If we look at the game from the economic perspective - the best way to make money is to loose games. In other words the best way to win is to loose. Accumulate money and with them in hand be able to win on court. It is the case in leagues I, II, III, IV - everywhere.

The only position that could be more profitable than being last with minimal payroll is league champion (promotion bonus, extra revenue in the next season). Doing best to win but failing in the final is so much less profitable than loosing every single game - that it pushes people to tank. I could say also that moving to tanking also reduces the commitment to the game - no short term competition. That could also lead to quitting the game. Tanking can push people who deal with tanking to quit and people that tank to quit.

Something you missed and I consider as most important fix:

Stop money making through tanking!

The easiest fix: noone is going to attend a game if he knows it's going to be lost by >100 points (because the last 3, 4 or more have been lost that high). I can't believe there are 15.000+ people watching 6th league teams in 1st leagues losing by >100 points week after week.

Might also improve the enjoyment if there werent so many predictable 100 point wins against tankers.

plus id suggest that quite a few tankers end up going bot because they get totally bored from tanking

That was my point - there are casualties on both sides. When you play against tank - you are bored. When you tank for two seasons - you get bored.

And as long as you one can make good profit on tanking - people will tank. Rising minimal salary could help or making spectators devastate their arena when loosing by 100 points ;)...

I like the idea of having your fans riot and destroying part of your arena when you lose by a large margin.

Certainly would deter tanking even more

Okay I have drawn up another poll and included in it 3 great ideas from the discussions in this forum and also excluded from it the 4 bottom vote getters from this original poll

Please vote at (264729.1)


Please join the discussion at (264729.1)

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 11/2/2014 4:13:48 AM

My test of tests is for a non-LI team to play the same game twice once with LI, and once with whatever other tactic, and see if the can actually only win by not playing LI. Always I saw that even a team good at other offences was still better at LI.

Last season I didn't run Princeton or other outside offenses nearly as often because of concerns over GDP. Late in the season I picked up a very high IS player (especially compared to my other players) and ran LI in the playoffs. My team shot under 5% from the field in the first quarter and never really caught up - the 18 IS guy ended up shooting 20% from the field that game. Thanks to garbage time I cut the deficit from 21 to the final margin of 12, but I might be the one example of a team that did worse running LI than I would have with just about any other offense.

A link to my season on buzzer manager:
(http://www.buzzer-manager.com/calendrier/30851/?saison=28)

Now, to be fair, I lost to the same team in the same situation a few weeks back when I ran Motion into his low post, but the deficit was about 7 points give or take a bucket most of the fourth quarter. And part of the reason was that they were a better team. But adding an 18 IS forward and running LI still ended up killing my offense in the playoff rematch.

I can't figure out for the life of me why there are still micro nations. It just seems like common sense to start lumping some of the into regions of at least a hundred users so you can have two full divisions. I feel your pain.

Srry I don't use buzzermanager.

I think high IS bigs is a big mistake with trying to get LI to work...and if you had a team build for something else and picked up high IS thinking that would help.....

LI works if the team is built to flow, DR on bigs and IS on guards.

I didn't mention he had 16 DR to go with his 18 IS (plus 11 JS, 14 HA and 9 passing, though that's not really significant at this level). LI used to always work really well for me in lower leagues because I had good passing and handling all around, despite not having IS. In this case, I figured it would work better because if worse came to worse, I'd have the 18 IS maybe make a difference on contested shots and putbacks (especially with the LI rebounding boost). I think more than anything it was a stupid decision on my part based on frustration with last season, especially since I bought the guy thinking he'd work in an inside isolation and then went with LI anyway.