BuzzerBeater Forums

Explain how a 22 yo gets four OD pops in 4 weeks of training in a row then?

Elastic effect is real buddy.

I'm not sure how neutral it can get when he says elastic effect is neutral. But I can see how it can be somewhat neutral in the sense let's say OD depends on HA and vice versa. If you just train OD a lot only the elastic effect will start negatively affecting the OD training, but when you train HA afterwards it positively affects HA and neutralizes out? However, I'm not sure if the elasticity both ways are to the same degree which is why it may or may not neutralize out completely.

Remember that Handling trains at almost twice the speed of OD. So neutral in that respect is also incorrect.

Not saying elasticity is neutral, and OD/HA was just a non specific example. But we aren't talking about the base speeds of training, but instead the degree the elasticity affects the training :\

Its funny because we have kind of the same discussion in the Spanish forum, but what we are discussing is if a level 4 trainer is worth it over a level 3. How much money can you get for those players against the money you spend training them?
I think you dont understand how hard is to progress in a big country and how difficult is to make the economy work.
The teams that can afford those coach salaries (div. I, II) cant train players because they need to win games. If you pay that much money to your trainer in a lower division you cant really compete with the rest, hence, you lose more money.
BTW, the trophy I am proudest is my div 6 champ.

Its funny because we have kind of the same discussion in the Spanish forum, but what we are discussing is if a level 4 trainer is worth it over a level 3. How much money can you get for those players against the money you spend training them?
I think you dont understand how hard is to progress in a big country and how difficult is to make the economy work.
The teams that can afford those coach salaries (div. I, II) cant train players because they need to win games. If you pay that much money to your trainer in a lower division you cant really compete with the rest, hence, you lose more money.
BTW, the trophy I am proudest is my div 6 champ.

very well said. +1

Hey....a ball for the both of you!!

Well, I hear what you are saying and you made some great points.

How much money can you get for those players against the money you spend training them?

Well, IF you can get a player on the NT/U-21, you can get some nice merchandise from those players.
So I always make sure that my Trainer's salary is less than my merchandise. and I always take the sum of my Arena gate and TV money and never take my teams salaries above that. This way, Cup money is the money I bank.
I bet this formula would work in lower divisions.

I think you dont understand how hard is to progress in a big country and how difficult is to make the economy work.

Well, I don't because I live in a smaller BB nation. But on the other hand. I got thrown in the top DIV. with way better teams, so my 1st 5 seasons were try to build my arena, train, without dropping.
And what some people don't remember was that when I started in the middle of season 7, TV contracts were only 50K...so even know I didn't start in DivII, I wasn't making money and getting killed every game. Not like now when new teams come in to the top DIV. and get 200K for TV contracts.
(PS. TV contracts changed to their now sums for season 10 after the cap on the arena was announced)
My Conclusion

If a team is lucky enough to get a HOF, ATG or even a MVP with good starting skills. These are very rare, and gettin a Homegrown high POT. player that you drafted doesn't happen very often.
look at me..I finally got a HOF player in the draft last season after 16 seasons of crappy draft picks, even know he is 19...I don't care...he is my draftee.
I think that it IS worth it to buy a high level trainer and see how good you can make him. If you have to lower your team salary to do it....hey...I would..HOF homegrown draftees don't grow on trees, why not splurge a little when you do get one.

I don't know if you read/got what Jeffjeff was saying about the neutrality, but I assume that's what B.B. King's talking about. He does not deny the elastic effect happens, but what I think he's trying to say, is that it doesn't matter what skills you train first, because every time you up skills to gain elastic effect for another, you get the negative effect on the skill you want to get up first, thus negating any speed advantage in training. This way, the school of thought to train 1v1 first is said to be ineffective.

I think though this might be the case to some extend, it could be hard to compare the positive and negative effect. I don't know if there's any data, so I think it's hard to make statements wether they cancel eachother out or not.

Last edited by Jeründerbar at 4/18/2013 8:08:23 AM

Actually, there is some analysis of the elastic effect coming out of the crowdsourced training analysis project. If you're a contributor there, check the "Blog" section, and wozzvt has a post about the elastic effect.

Interestingly, the elastic effect isn't always neutral, and isn't alway reciprocal. Boosting HA first can give a net increase in later OD/PA training.

Furthermore, the project has the largest set of real data about the effect of trainer level. It's a bit hard to understand, given that there appears to be little increase in training for going from level 4 to 5. And yet, there is a lot of data forming the foundation for that conclusion. But it was enough for me to downgrade from level 5 to 4.

Explanatory note: I am not interested at all in the discussion about whats harder, been part of a big nation or a small one. Never pretending to say I should take more credit because of that.

"and I always take the sum of my Arena gate and TV money and never take my teams salaries above that. This way, Cup money is the money I bank.
I bet this formula would work in lower divisions."

TV money (101k) + Arena (155k to 200k) - team salary (270k)= break even. There are 5 teams with higher salaries in my league (between 395k to 219k in my conference). What makes the game very interesting, because I have to improve the team, expand the arena, compete and train with no profits or easy games. Losing games is a lot of money.

Going back to the subject, I have a friend that got a good-not exceptional player to train who is in the Spanish sub-21 NT [player=http://www.buzzerbeater.com/player/24865511/overview.aspx] trained most of the time with a level 4 coach. Now he is starting to have really good players, but at the moment, instead of a div. III team he is in div. V.

My conclusion: It depends what your strategy is at that point. There is not The right way. Training a 18 years old draftee properly its something I fancy, but would cost a lot of money to my team and I dont want to get demoted, so I think the best for my team under my current circunstances would be to sell that MVP player. And maybe thats also the best for my NT.
Its not that I dont want the best possible trainer. I just cant make it work financially.