BuzzerBeater Forums

Alright all....back to the debate.

My question for all- there can be a fine line between training for the U21 and training for the NT. Sometimes, training for the NT can mean that players wont necessarily be great options for the U21 because of getting the out of position training early on. As manager, will you be willing to work with myself, and any other possible future NT manager, if that means some of your best young talent wont be options for the U21?

Also, to go along with the question above, typically the Scouts are in charge of the players 21 years old and younger. As the NT manager, I typically work with guys in the 22-32 years range and even had some amazing help with the 22-25 years range last season. Due to rarely working with U21 players, how will you determine which ones go the NT route compared to U21? Do you plan to make this a conversation between myself and you, plan to make that decision yourself, or plan to make that a community decision?

I'm not of the belief that the majority of the NT players are not of use to the u21, and vice versa. The players that i want to incorporate into the u21 are involved in less prominent roles, and probably less potential than is desired for the u21 group. I'd also point out that the majority of Phyr's ideal builds that he posted for the NT builds, whether or not they are accurate, are entirely doable within a u21 run as well.

In reality to go with your 2nd question, it's up to the user who owns that player first. Only then can i send a BB-mail and say "is this guy someone on your radar or no" to someone like you currently if i can get the buy-in required, or get them to sell to someone who will.

First, Goldbear has applied, as has O-kid. So there are four people making the effort still, not just two. I haven't known goldbear for much other than the occasional trollings in the US-chat, and i've seen oriole kid around quite a few times.

With regards to what i bring, i'm more focused on player builds, one on one approaches, and most importantly opposition scouting. I feel that in most cases I can understand what my opponents move is going to be in the basketball sim (with regards to the actual games and the decisions that go into them). I don't think i would stop trying to do that if i lost, especially if it's tough. While we have two different approaches to the game, i only ever get frustrated with him when he tries to firesale his own buzzerbeater team haha.

The u21 lacks the ability to get to the 15/15/12/8 build by the time the u21 season rolls around on most of the talent. We're going to have to be heavily resourceful to get results better than what Phyr managed, which is why i think i favor a few different types of builds. Most notably, one of our talents could be a very useful defender that matches closer to aaron's ID/SB build, and it's as good a time as any to see if a balanced SB/ID work as he'll be amongst the top players available I feel for the u21 team as far as bigs go in season 35. This season shouldn't be awful.

I favor higher SB and slightly lower Rebounding on bigs, especially if we are to only get to 12 REB. the 12 SB is much more effective in conjuction with a high defense. My guess is the formula behind the shots has something to do with the defensive position (ID or OD based calculations) before it calculates a blocked shot. A big with a somewhat high secondary in OD (thinking 7 OD honestly, the top end of what the player can get without training) and good ID/SB (14/13 or 15/12 ID/SB) with good IS will do well enough. Additionally, i feel that SB and ID training promote better training speeds for one another, which would not harm the ability to get the most points possible.

Josh

Hypothetical question to all:

Someone comes to you with a 6'11" big man(HOF potential) with these starting skills: 6/3/3/4/4/5-6/6/7/6

This owner is really excited about this player but has little experience training. How would you go about discussing with this manager the correct way to go about training? What build style would you aim for for this player if I, the NT manager, also think he could be useful for the NT at a later point?

First, Goldbear has applied, as has O-kid. So there are four people making the effort still, not just two. I haven't known goldbear for much other than the occasional trollings in the US-chat, and i've seen oriole kid around quite a few times.

That's my bad, I hadn't seen a speech from either and in O-kid's case, his posts here were buried. Fixed it.

First, Goldbear has applied, as has O-kid. So there are four people making the effort still, not just two. I haven't known goldbear for much other than the occasional trollings in the US-chat, and i've seen oriole kid around quite a few times.

For one, it's GOLDMEMBEAR. And sorry we haven't had a chance to meet sport. But it's apparent we don't frequent the same locales.

I can not believe this is actually the U21 election.



Last edited by GOLDMEMBEAR at 2/17/2016 3:35:24 PM

Hypothetical question to all:

Someone comes to you with a 6'11" big man(HOF potential) with these starting skills: 6/3/3/4/4/5-6/6/7/6

This owner is really excited about this player but has little experience training. How would you go about discussing with this manager the correct way to go about training? What build style would you aim for for this player if I, the NT manager, also think he could be useful for the NT at a later point?

For starters, you point every enthusiastic new manager to the BB Bible by RIP. Have them memorize it. In the end it is up to them, but if they want help then you fill needs. They are the ones adding value to their respective teams. You can only show them the door.

I will bring very little if I don't win. Sure, not popular, but I have now lost like 8-9 elections now, and it's not for a lack of trying. I was an advanced scout, I was the head scout, I did participate in gameplanning. I've done it all. And it netted me absolutely nothing. Why would continuing to work under people and then have another candidate come out of nowhere, who did much less than me but had the right people backing him, win?

I'll do what I've always done. Answer questions directed at me, look over training guides and give advice. But I'm not subjecting myself to another season of vigorous scouting. Unless I win.

I wouldn't be opposed to calling up the less potentialed, but more talented players if it helped the team win. The U21 coaches objective is to win first, care about the NT second. I'd rather us be a powerhouse U21 team, or NT team(I mean, both is good, too) than above average in both. So yes, I'd do what it took to make the team win. If the trainers come to me about NT plan, I'll direct them to the NT coach. That's been a major issue in the past about the U21 coach giving the trainers NT builds that the NT coach did not 100% agree with.

The end game is winning.

I started up the training diary thread. It fell dormant for over a year, and in the very beginning, it wasn't really a forum for team training. I was the first one to document my week to week progress. Then Wozzt jumped on board, and then more did. But I was the first, and now it is the single most popular forum for training advice, and sharing.

I have other minor ones that are probably better than others best claim, but that right there, listed above, changed the entire offsite forum for the better. It would not be where it is today if I hadn't started the training diaries up.

My question for all candidates:

A lot of the U21 team being good is luck of having good draft seasons and dedicated managers getting the best trainees. How do you account for the variance this causes and what do you think (other than just offering up specific builds) is the best way to get ahead of the curve in training compared to the rest of the world?

Secondly, what type of gameplan and training analysis have you done and its cause on team play? Do you have databases or historical data for this information that you could utilize to the advantage of the U21 team?

Last edited by Coach_Nuggets at 2/17/2016 6:04:26 PM

I maintain that U21 and NT training are two different beasts. It's hard to view long term NT outlook, and also train for the U21. Not impossible, as there are builds, such as PGs, and true Centers where the NT training path nets the prospect on the U21. Stretch 4s, balanced 3s, LI guards, and true SGs on a NT build are not usually where the U21 would love them to be at. The great draftees, and the prospects managers spend 2+ MM on are definitely unattainable for the majority of the US managers.

It is not that often where a U21 prospect maxes out above a SS potential build before the end of their U21 season.

Not often. Tanner Winn did. There may be one or two Centers a season that do. SFs, PFs, PGs, and SGs rarely do. I trained Otto Reedy until he was 24, and when he was on the U21 team he was similar to some 28 y/o PAS guards on the market.

In past years manager's eyes didn't survey much beyond MVPs. An unusual build, or a really thin crop at that position and you'd see lower potentials.
That won't be me. I won't offer any radical builds, but I will change the way these players are scouted. What they're at now. What their cap is. How many pops, and where, would it take for them to actually cap. That could mean more PAS, and SS players on the U21. It would be ignorant to look at a PAS, SS, and possibly AS, say that they're good but you think they'll cap out before researching that exact question and seeing if they could feasibly contribute.

Americas doesn't count. The teams in Americas are not very good. We had bugs with good subs in season 31 and we barely made it out of the first round in worlds.

the teams are not as good sure, doesnt mean the numbers mean anything different.

Not to mention if that is the case then the donkey builds should have outplayed the well rounded build even more so, facing inferior competition, yet the numbers dont lie. Your welcome to keep lieing to yourself tho, I could care less.

Last edited by tetrahydroc at 2/17/2016 10:20:24 PM