BuzzerBeater Forums

It's not that those people's feelings don't matter, but history is filled with people who found a way to say they were uncomfortable with others for reasons that we no longer look at as legitimate. They were just prejudiced, and we don't have to go out of our way to make prejudiced people comfortable. The burden is on them.

50 years ago, Jason Collins wouldn't have been allowed to eat at the same lunch counter or use the same drinking fountain as a white teammate playing in many parts of this country. Go watch "42" and see how Jackie Robinson tried to put his white teammates at ease by showering last and separately.

But today, if a white NBA player said he had awkwardness taking a shower next to a black teammate, we wouldn't give it a drop of credence as feelings we need to respect. And Jason Collins has no more control over his sexual preference than his skin color, and it's as simple as that.

Everyone should go read "The Sneetches" and remember that we're all people, and none of the other stuff matters. Seriously.

I dont see any difference in what you described and what men said about women being in the military or the workplace 100 years ago, or what white people said about black kids going to schools with their children 70 years ago. The fact of the matter is that you can't take something away from someone, or in this case, force them to hide it, because you aren't comfortable with it.

EDIT: redcped beat me to it :)



Last edited by yeppers at 4/30/2013 12:47:34 PM

Well said, as was the previous message.

You are correct, your relationship with your wife is more than just about the act of sex...and a gay person should feel free to love who they want....and I don't look at your relationship with your wife as courageous, or anything that should be put on a pedestal, just like gay people in love shouldn't be either. Who people love shouldn't matter to the next person....but with this issue, and the sympathetic nature that has come from it, like Fewmit said, a changing view on homosexuality, the media and others are now esteeming them for declaring this aspect of their lives.

Ever see people put pictures of them and their family in their office? Ever see people wear a wedding ring (and assume they're married to a person of the opposite sex?) Do you know the names of your co-workers' spouses? Ever hear someone answer the phone using a typically opposite sex name, and end the conversation with "I love you."? Ever see parents smile when two little kids of the opposite sex kiss one another (and compare it to reactions when two boys or two girls kissed)? All of these are examples of what most of society expects, and they're in your face, being "declared" every single day. Gay people just want the same ability to do those things, without fear of people hating, or hurting them.

We can get into the a big debate of all the pro's and con's if you like...but when it comes to Professional Sports, the Military, and other fields, this "courageous" decision has far reaching implications that affect more than just the person coming out....and not all of those things are positive for everyone involved.

Sure, but you got any real evidence that there are "far reaching consequences"? If the military studies and experience since the end of DADT demonstrate that there's no significant adverse effects, then that's good enough for me. And if it applies in the military, then it would take a lot to convince me that it doesn't apply to sports teams, or your gym shower.

I am not saying that a gay person shouldn't come out, or shouldn't be able to be honest with who they are, but just like in this post, where I point out a different point of view, and am called shallow...there are others that have to work in close proximity with that person, who might be very uncomfortable it (their feelings are real too, and it doesn't make them a bad person)...whether its a trust issue on the basketball court, in the battlefield...or a new-found awkwardness taking a shower around that person...others are affected. But if any of those people are genuinely uncomfortable about it, their feelings don't matter, because we are "evolving" as a nation, and their teammate made a "courageous" decision.

Saying that you may feel be uncomfortable around gay people doesn't make you a bad person. Saying that gay people should hide such a large part of their authentic self because you just don't want to deal with those feelings is, I dunno about 'bad', but definitely pretty weak (and it essentially does say to them, "please don't come out").

This not to deny that you're experiencing those feelings, but your rational self can keep them in check. And while you're thinking about your own feelings of being uncomfortable, try and think how many times you might feel uncomfortable if you were gay. [And all of this doesn't even touch on what fewmit brought up, which is the threat of real violence that gay people have experienced, and still do, for being their true self].

Irony

When a gay person come out, it seems they want to be accepted and not treated differently. However, what they do is draw attention to themselves as being different and thus get treated differently, and now by other people are not accepted.


I could careless if your blue, gay, black, white, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, straight, bi, a gun owner, etc. Just don't tell me how to live my life or judge me, and I'll grant you the same.

To say that gays are treated differently because they present themselves as different is silly, I think. What you are implying is that homosexuals bring any persecution and hate they get onto themselves by being openly different. You're saying that they should just keep it on the down low and people will leave them alone. That is exactly why Jason Collins is doing this. Being openly gay shouldn't have those consequences.

This is actually a serious post.... We should welcome gay people into all parts of public life but I'd prefer to have gun owners keep their gun love to themselves or at least confine it to their own homes. Public displays of homosexuality don't bother me as gay people have to watch my fat ass kiss my wife in public all the time but I find the public discharge of firearms to be a little bit problematic.

And Jason Collins has no more control over his sexual preference than his skin color, and it's as simple as that.

You used a comparison to Jackie Robinson on that post there. ....
Careful chum
Jackie Robinson was the first African American to play in the Majors..... oh and he was one of the best ball players to ever play the game.
An African American has no "choice" in his skin color, or being male.
Jason Collins is a scrub with height.... just like a left handed pitcher you can play a long time. I consider myself at times more than a casual fan and I have never heard of this guy. .. until now. .. so I don't know his body of work on the court outside of hieght. ... so how will he be recognized to someone like me?
It's not courage. ... it is self serving. He is not the first gay person to play the game is he? And to equate that next to Jackie Robinson. ....umph.... he couldn't hide from being a black man.
Color is not a choice. .. you sexual preference is. People wish to put a human face to one thing comparing it to well. .. something you can't compare it to.

So your saying 2 gay men rob 2 different banks, however, the 1st men doesn't let on that he is gay, yet the other publicly comes out that he was gay. Would man number 2, be treated differently, then the other gay man? I think they would be.


Again, I'm not trying to put anyone down, but anytime you let on that your different from the normal you will get treated differently. That is all I'm saying.

PPS, I don't think robbing a bank should be a crime, considering how bad they fleece us.

Color is not a choice. .. you sexual preference is. People wish to put a human face to one thing comparing it to well. .. something you can't compare it to.

Completely and utterly false. There's no choice in whether you are attracted to people of the same sex or not. Many gay people will tell you that they knew from very young ages that they were different from their peers in this regard. I can already see in my 7 year old son that he's interested in girls, and female bodies. I don't see any reason why that's his conscious choice at this stage. So, I don't see any reason why the same wouldn't be true of a young gay person.

I'll take 1 step farther, Tangosz. They have actually found the gay gene.