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Kinda love it. Guy bragging about having real life.......writes novel about autobid.

Mate, remember you some time ago and still did not make any progress in one area - write for yourself. Saying 'WE', 'AUDIENCE' or anything along the lines of that is pretty bold statement, however I do not feel we agree here.

Market has been like that for months and probably years, like everywhere there are some customs. If you check early bird time in Japan do not be surprise that liquidity dried out as vast majority of entire BB world is either sleeping or preparing for 'real world job'. If you are smart enough then just do not place an offer that will conclude around that period or simply bid earlier, so you leave your order in case of said event of low liquidity.

People been complaining about inflation, rapid market price increase and this option will only enhance this problem. And yes, saying people as observed much more subjects opened with pricing complains unlike autobid function.

If you want to punish users spending/sacrifying/devoting more time than others just for the sake of getting player for lower price then I have bad news for you - every online game known to me favours this kind behaviour and foremost it impose on users to spend that time to get the player they desire. Once you have autobid function, it is likely that users will stop visiting website as you can just set autobid at certain price and.....log out.

However the real turn off for me is not lack of tweaks or game improvements, but constant whining on forums. Quick question, have you ever seen any person, who always complain, that is surrounded by nice girls on a party?

Quick question, have you ever seen any person, who always complain, that is surrounded by nice girls on a party?

lol naivety at its best. The answer is yes. I have eyewitnessed complete ass*oles who not only complain all the time but treat people like sh*t going out with supermodels (and I was present when said people were throwing a tantrum with the owner of the club we were in).

To me the real turn off is people who complain about those who want improvements. Whiners of first degree, who come up with reasons why people should never ask for anything and explain that with the reasoning of a 6 year old. Like you did.

The fact that you people don't understand how markets work is not a problem, but if you don't, do not come on forums dismissing valid opinions without making any point or building straw men to argue for the sake of arguing like you did here:

then just do not place an offer that will conclude around that period or simply bid earlier, so you leave your order in case of said event of low liquidity.

1) Autobid would have improved the number of bids on players. Result: more players would be sold and sold for the right price instead of people overpaying or underpaying. A, liquid, functioning market is vital to prevent arbitrage which is the point Wolph keeps making, but you clearly failed to understand.
2) Tax on profits instead of sales also improves liquidity as people would be able to retool their rosters without being penalised. A tax on the sale value discourages people to list their players.

The lower the liquidity on the Trasfer List the weakest the link between price and value. These were not complaints, these were PROPOSALS made before actual changes in the game. On Autobid GMs argued that you need click from users for Ad money and (a few) users argued that they liked to wake up in the middle of the night to bid or liked bid wars and they should be rewarded for it. On taxing profits instead of sales, nobody ever gave a coherent explanation, but the suspicion most people have is that it was simpler to implement, so they went that way.


Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/20/2017 4:29:27 AM

Let's move in time and share explanation of 26 rather than 6 year old man.

Before we start, we have to answer simple question - do you believe that market price already hit the roof?

If you have positive answer on above then I do not understand why you support the idea of autobid. Here you have two reasons:
1) From economy under perfect conditions and no trading restrictions imposed by regulators/government, market price is determined by the law of supply and demand. The level on which both lines cross each other represents equilibrium. In other words, demand and supply is equal against each other and both parties (customer and supplier) are willing to trade at exactly the same price. There are two additional scenarios: (i) demand for product exceeds supply - product is traded at client's price per given quantity, (ii) supply exceeds demand - similarly, we trade at client's price as clients are not willing to cover the cost of overproduction. http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2016/03/Supply-Deman... <--click link to continue the course.

Now let's consider the impact of autobid on pricing. The supply line remains intact, as autobid is unlikely to have an effect whether you place the player on TL or not. It is rather determined by the cost of replacement. On the other hand, autobid will increase the curve of demand line as number of traders/buyers will increase as all of them can set their max price upfront without waiting till the end of an auction (little tricky, will discuss in 2nd point).

Ultimately, equilibrium price will move up meaning that for the same quantity (i.e. product) we will have to pay more.

2) Imagine scenario when we have 2 users to bid on player X.

user #1: he bids first and established his max price at 100,000. He will not be available on the final day of auction
user #2: he/she (let's support equality rights) bids after user #1 and sets max price at 60,000. He/She will not be available on the final day. As a result, price immediately spiked to 61,000. Ask why? Well, both autobids competes against each other immediately and final bid was 1k over user #2 max limit.

Currently, none of them will be likely to place their max bids upfront 2-3 days ahead the end of auction. Meaning that price on final day could be lower than 61,000 as both of them will be hesitant to show their intention. Other way, if final price goes above 100k then there is no advantage of having autobid. Surely, you can always amend your max level you are willing to splash.

To summarize the above, due to increased competition on auctions, you'll have to outbid more users which will be reflected in diminished value of your wallet.

The level on which both lines cross each other represents equilibrium. In other words, demand and supply is equal against each other and both parties (customer and supplier) are willing to trade at exactly the same price.

That's macroeconomics 101. The Transfer List in this game is not under perfect conditions which is what Wolph implied repeatedly and you wilfully decided to misrepresent. Taxes, constraints of any kind, time zone segmentation, make the Transfer List less and less a perfect market.

If you have positive answer on above then I do not understand why you support the idea of autobid.

Autobid was asked for before they erased FA and started Utopia, there was a massive deflation at the time and several times more transactions than there are now. Autobid is not something that is needed to reduce or increase prices, it's needed to achieve correct pricing, irrespective of whether it's higher or lower. Correct pricing is even more important today than it was 3 years ago before Utopia, because there are fewer transactions.

If you list a player at night 2 things can happen: 1) someone overbids massively to make sure he wins the auction (incidentally the seller should be fined for the overbid, assuming a fair price can be established); 2) the auction winner will underpay. In both cases the price is incorrect because of deficiencies in the market. With autobid you'd partially solve this as 1) would never happen and 2) would be less likely as people would autobid on players they are not willing to significantly overbid on in the hope nobody tops that overbid.

The supply line remains intact, as autobid is unlikely to have an effect whether you place the player on TL or not.

This is not entirely correct. People would list players on the transfer list at a lower starting point, if it meant a higher likelihood of achieving a fair price. In the current scenario you have people listing at very high prices hoping that someone will overpay by hitting the asking price. These people only want to sell at a high enough price, because they think that if they list the player normally he will not achieve their minimum target price.

The supply of players listed well above the TPE is irrelevant to the supply, so bringing some of those to more reasonable levels would actually increase the supply. Of course supply is strangled by the tax on sales more than anything, so shifting from a tax on sales to profits would help massively. Buying back players without penalty would also encourage lower starting price.

On the other hand, autobid will increase the curve of demand line as number of traders/buyers will increase as all of them can set their max price upfront without waiting till the end of an auction (little tricky, will discuss in 2nd point).

Demand would be the same, the number of people bidding per auction would be higher. As mentioned above, it would prevent most underpayments, but it would not necessarily increase the price because of the auction format. Your explanation of how the TL works is as a financial marked for liquid instruments, but that's not how the price is formed on the TL.

In practice, using autobid instead of using your maximum limit directly, would in fact also prevent most cases of people overpaying because they cannot be online for the auction. If such max limit is enough to win the auction, with autobid the winning user would not necessarily have to overpay. Again the price would reflect value more closely.

2) Imagine scenario when we have 2 users to bid on player X.

What is the correct price in your example? 100k or 61k? GMs will tell you it's 61k. If both were engaged in a bid war, it would end at 61k. If someone bid 100k the seller should be fined 39k for the overbidding by the buyer. Unfortunately, it is difficult for a GM to decide whether the player was worth 61k or 100k, especially if there are very few comparable examples due to poor liquidity.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/20/2017 8:03:29 PM

yes as a money drag I agree sale tax works fine, BUT you have to believe that with the current system the number of transactions on the TL has been crippled because people are encouraged to hold on to their players for a long time.

You put the tax on profits (plus a fixed amount or percentage that has always been there) and more people will list players, therefore there will be more transactions. The effect on the money sunk is inconclusive, it vastly depends on the behaviour of users today and how many more transactions it would bring. For example: if nobody today lists a player when the tax is more than 5%-10%, it's possible that shifting to a profit system will not decrease the money sunk if the number of transactions increase enough.

And yes the underlying problem with the market has always been the lack of price clarity and players being priced correctly especially at the top end of the skill count. I stopped playing Hattrick although I was in D3 in a 7 tier nation and in Hattrick it was much rarer to get massive bargains price wise. You could see the comparables, and the price variance was very low. If you trained you knew pretty closely how much money you'd make in advance. I'm not saying that was due to the Autobid feature they have, but I'm pretty sure it helped as you had autobids in most auctions.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 6/21/2017 4:34:23 AM