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New European championship structure idea

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This Post:
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312667.11 in reply to 312667.4
Date: 12/20/2021 5:32:55 PM
Ramat-Gan Billers
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
641641
Second Team:
Maccabi Ramat-Gan
I don't think you are aware of that but in Asia and America they have a week "bye" because the first round is composed by 3 pools of 7. So in fact america teams and asia teams play a maximum of 13 games for 14 in Europe.

I'm not sure the continental tournaments need a change, it's a minor priority in my mind, because I'm not sure to understand why it's unfair for Europe. We have the same number of countries in the second round and we have one more game in the first round that in Asia and America (Africa has more but comparing Africa and Europe is not relevant). Of course there are more teams out after the first round but I don't see why it's a problem.

And if something has to be changed it's not in Europe but in Asia and America to remove the week "bye". And the only way to achieve that is to remove countries.

Joe


Why do you assume that I'm unaware of it? I wrote that most of the teams on these continents will have 11 games, which are 6 on the first stage and 5 on the second one.

There are 4 times more team out after the first round. Which hurt experience gain, make half of the season extremely boring for 75% of the teams in Europe, and also hurt the level of the second round itself. The second round repeatedly is missing some of the best teams in the continent due to the very weird build we have. On every European championship there are few weaker teams that get to the second stage where they have nothing to sell just because they used their enthusiasm to even get there, while better teams stays out. Every single time. I don't see it as a good structure. I have nothing against those teams of course, I did the same thing few seasons back and will do it again if I'll have to. But I do want the best teams on the later stages, and it's not the situation.

And by the way, if you'll increase the number of teams on the second teams those weaker teams will still get there, but without having to spend ent and to get in a much weaker position. They might be even able to pull some surprises and get a medal, which just never happens on this build. So it's a build that let underdogs get to the prestige second stage on the expense of contenders, just to do nothing there.

This Post:
00
312667.12 in reply to 312667.5
Date: 12/20/2021 5:45:59 PM
Ramat-Gan Billers
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
641641
Second Team:
Maccabi Ramat-Gan
I think that the 2nd round in europe is quite competitive usually and might be just where it should be.

I also don't think you can overlook the amount of NT in europe that play 7 games and nothing else after that.
You have 36 teams that do that.

Best solution the way I see it, since I don't want to change the current 1st and 2nd round because I think its very competitive for most NTs, is a small tournament for all these 36 teams. It will also be very competitive because weak teams will have more weak teams to play against, and very weak teams will have more games against very weak teams.

This way you keep the great competitive structure we have now in europe(don't know how competitive it is in other places) and you also create another great environment for competitive games for weak and weaker teams.


I actually don't think it's as competitive as it could have been, far from it actually. That is due to the fact that many good teams are being eliminated while weaker ones use their ent to get there. I shared the statistics about the last 3 championships. I'm willing to bet this kind of stuff never happens on America or on Asia. And just look at the second stage of the European championship this year. No need to go far. Just today on the flawless competitive second round - One team lost by 49 points, another team lost by 26 points, and another one lost with CT against TIE. The Tieing team Actually lost by 46 points two weeks ago and 25 points a week ago. Such great competitive matches.

Last edited by Bill_tipesh at 12/20/2021 5:55:43 PM

This Post:
00
312667.13 in reply to 312667.12
Date: 12/20/2021 7:17:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
8585
- One team lost by 49 points, another team lost by 26 points, and another one lost with CT against TIE. The Tieing team Actually lost by 46 points two weeks ago and 25 points a week ago. Such great competitive matches.


I'm curious if you're talking about Moldova against Hellas, CT vs TIE and we lost by 42 points but our NT is much much weaker and we had no chance anyway

From the POV of a micronation NT, I think I talk on behalf of every small/micronation/early eliminated NT that there should be a tournament for the eliminated teams so they can compete against teams with similar strenght. Otherwise teams like Moldova who are pereniall last place finishers will always get battered and lose every single game in every single tournament with nothing to play but scrimmages in the 2nd part of the season. This way it could add an exciting aspect to the NT game and possibly engage with users who are doubtful of training smaller NT's.

This Post:
00
312667.14 in reply to 312667.12
Date: 12/20/2021 7:17:45 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
8585
- One team lost by 49 points, another team lost by 26 points, and another one lost with CT against TIE. The Tieing team Actually lost by 46 points two weeks ago and 25 points a week ago. Such great competitive matches.


I'm curious if you're talking about Moldova against Hellas, CT vs TIE and we lost by 42 points but our NT is much much weaker and we had no chance anyway

From the POV of a micronation NT, I think I talk on behalf of every small/micronation/early eliminated NT that there should be a tournament for the eliminated teams so they can compete against teams with similar strenght. Otherwise teams like Moldova who are pereniall last place finishers will always get battered and lose every single game in every single tournament with nothing to play but scrimmages in the 2nd part of the season. This way it could add an exciting aspect to the NT game and possibly engage with users who are doubtful of training smaller NT's.

Last edited by sergio at 12/21/2021 6:05:28 PM

This Post:
00
312667.20 in reply to 312667.18
Date: 12/21/2021 5:59:18 AM
Ramat-Gan Billers
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
641641
Second Team:
Maccabi Ramat-Gan

The fact that in the EC, there is a small chance every time that even one of the favourites will be eliminated in the 1st round is great, this is interesting, this is fun. For me this is an advantage for Europe compare to Asia, not a flaw. It means top teams can't just blunder games and still expect to continue like that to the 2nd round and so on to the final four, the path is important too, you really can't relax untill u reach the final four and then just try to be clutch in 2 games.


But it's not a small chance. I showed the cases from the last 3 European championships. I actually didn't know how common it is until I checked. I think chances of upsets are a nice part of every game, but I don't think on the current structure the chances are small. I think it's also related to the fact that the ranking system of NTs is somehow broken, and should probably be based on more than 2 seasons.


Most top teams in fact do continue to the 2nd round, if half of them were eliminated then one could argue that something is wrong, but thats not the case.
Increasing the total number of teams that continue to the 2nd will just be boring, it will only favor top teams, there will be zero chance they will be eliminated and they will just play TIE every game to get ready to the 2nd round. I don't want that.
If a certain team is truly a favourite to win the EC, it can't lose twice already in the 1st round. I love this about the EC, you have to be consistent throughout the whole championship, you have to start strong right away.
The Team that wins the EC is always one with a great roster, but it also managed to be consistent through 2 rounds.

2nd round right now in europe is also very challenging in most of the games, look at pool H right now, except Bulgaria, this pool is insanely competitive. This situation that in europe you usually have only one or two weaker teams than the others is much better than Asia for example, where they have at least 2-3 teams that are no competition to others. This is much more fun and interest for europe and as an european, i wouldn't give that up.

Just get a ranking competition for those who were eliminated and its perfect.


Of course that half of the favourites won't get eliminated every year, they are still the strongest teams on the continent. I showed teams that were doing great on the WC and then completely failed on the EC a season after. If you think it makes sense for those things to happen on this magnitude every season, that's ok, but you don't need half of them to get eliminated to call it a phenomenon.

In the second round this season there are 4 teams who have absolutely no chance of reaching the semi finals. The first 3 on group G were practically decided so there are even no WC qualification chances there. On group H, I'm willing to bet that on the semis it'll be two out of Espana, Deutschland and Italy. We know in real life, I'll give you 10 to 1 rate, will take this bet? I guess not, because it's easy to write, but it's also very easy to see that it's not really super competitive.

But your suggestion for the teams that get eliminated is interesting, I have some other ideas for it, will write it later today.

This Post:
22
312667.21 in reply to 312667.15
Date: 12/21/2021 10:33:04 AM
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
821821
Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
No He was talking about Belgium who has lost by 46 against Lietuva, by 25 against Serbia and won yesterday in TIE vs CT against England.
And about Bulgaria who are the joke of this finals.

But we are very proud to be at the finals at all. It's a great accomplishment for our country. And I do believe it's good thing that the current world champions and one of the best teams in the game, no doubt about that, actually could not make it to the Euro finals. This is the definition of competitiveness imo.

Admittedly, not having read most of the thread thoroughly, I strongly believe that the current Euro finals format is very good and does not need a change. The one thing that should change, as discussed in the other thread, is removing the repechages and substituting them with "playoff" rounds during the semi-finals/final.

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