BuzzerBeater Forums

I play HT too. There you play twice a week, one for your championship, the other cup or friendly. Not much different than here, considering that RS is far less critical in BB because of PO (while in HT you can win 13 and loose 1 in RS and not get promoted).

The main difference is that in HT you think you can easily set your team, just arranging 11 players based on one single core skill (and I have to say that flash interface is much friendly and richer in contents). Here you have to look at 5 on the field + 5 backups + 2 more, trying to capture which is the best P or PF (and you know the "preset" role is not necessarily the good one). That scares people, unless you love basket: football is more universally played, and the skill "attack" high easily suggest you that as an attacker. Here a G have at least 3-4 skills to look at, and even with some experience you can experience some trouble.

That is the feeling you have in HT. The reality is much far away. There are plenty of programs you can use to define team and tune it, and the results can change over 20-30% in comparison with common sense. I just read a 10-pages long guide to "your best number 10", understanding (and confirming just trying in my latest friendly match) that common sense does not fit with GE.

HT can be perceived as "easy to play", as many people plays football. BB cannot be.

At the end of the day, the time you can spend on both is comparable, although BB can require some more due to the lack of solid, easy-to-understand statistics (look at the tons of graphs you can have through utilities in HT, not basic ones that are definitely useless), ease of setting your team, basket mechanisms replicated by GE, and a general minor understanding of basketball ground rules.

Last edited by GM-BlackMouse at 1/7/2009 11:58:16 AM

really. why do people always have to take everything you say litterally and point out to you all the possible exceptions there are. i totally agree with you that if you want you can spend hundreds off hours a week on hattrick. I can guarantee you that most people spend no more than 10-15 min a week on hattrick. I am more than happy to ask my hattrick federation to make a poll for this (hundreds and hundreds off members) and ask them how much time they spend on hattrick.

It is about the point I was trying to make.

In hattrick sure you can always look at what tactics the other team has, scout your team through and through etc The bottom point is that most teams play 3-5-2 and you dont really need to do a lot to get a decent team together.

I dont know how you organise your team in buzzerbeater, but just looking at how many minutes your players played in buzzerbeater and to maximise the training minutes and to set up your team takes more than 10 minutes. I am sure you can get away with always playing the same tactics, but different from hattrick, you can win or loose a game in buzzerbeater by outsmarting the other team by using the correct or wrong tactic. If you want I can give you loads off examples...

Please anyone spare me the billion and one exceptions that are out there. It is a fact buzzerbeater is a more complex and therefore a more time consuming (how much more time is totally irrelevant) game than hattrick. It makes this game (in my opinion) a lot more fun but many people dont have the time to play this game.

You are right, it doesnt help that basketball isnt the number 1 sport in the world either. But in countries like USA, Spain, Italy, Greece this is a massive sport... Maybe BB should try and market the game in these countries. No clue how big their budget is, but I am sure there are many community websites in these countries. Also working together with other games would be a big help I reckon, although I can imagine other games might be comprehensive doing this, being afraid to loose members...

Probably my English is not as good as I think, as I am not sure I fully got your point. It looks like there are many things we agree on, but don't understand all your post.

So, let me try to summarize few points (either we agree or not)
- football is more universal than basketball, even in countries as Italy or Spain
- HT can be played with less effort in time than BB. It does not take at all 10 minutes unless you have a dominant team or you just play with no major objectives (ask my rival...)
- even when you are proceeding in the game, you can still spend less time in HT than in BB because of better support in team accomodation and statistics/evaluation (CHPP)
- in HT you can train 6 midfielders just setting up two matches in a row, with typically no surprise. In BB you cannot because of rotation and foul effects on minutes played

So, improve support to users (see also my first message), improve experience to not bother people jumping from one screenshot to another (HT flash match set up), make leverage on community.

very good summery. think you are spot on by saying that there are many help tools, websites that provide a lot off help with hattrick.

It would be good to have more available in bb.

I dont know if it is implementable in this game, or if the developers feel up to the task, but a website based or downloadable tool like hattrick organizer would really make a huge difference in my opinion...

Reading Astragoth's + BlackMouse's discussion is very interesting and it helps me to add to my earlier thoughts:

HT is difficult if you want it to be difficult. BB is difficult by default. That to me is the singular problem.

BB is not so "easy" to understand but for this reason is 100 times better than HT. Here the time you've to spend if you want to improve is less than HT, if you want to arrive in IVth division (Italian div) you've to spend hours on the market making day trading, no tactic and no way to hope that something can change soon in HT.
Sorry for the OT but BB has more fun (3 games) with less minutes (if you really want to try to arrive in the first division).

When I read the posts about BB being difficult, especially in comparison to HT, some things crossed my mind.

A lot of you (like myself) 'transferred' from Hattrick to BuzzerBeater. We all made the same kind of thoughts like "what should be the main skill for this or that position". It was a natural reflex to use the structure of thinking we know from HT. But this is a different game with other rules. A good new player reads the manual and searches on the forums. This way you get started in BB rather quickly. Especially when knowing the basics in basketball and using your common sense.

HT is difficult if you want it to be difficult. BB is difficult by default. That to me is the singular problem.

I think BB is well balanced: challenging for every user, but not so difficult that newbies can't handle it.

But I guess this thread is about finding ideas to attract new users and keep them, not about HTvsBB or about the standard difficulty lvl of this game itself, which is a fact and can't be changed.

A good new player reads the manual and searches on the forums.

That's a relevant point.

A new player wants to open the game and play, with a minimal (minimal) set of ground rules to know. A good new player read manual etc.

HT is perceived as easier, because attack is attack, defense is defense, goalkeeping is goalkeeping. It's a fake, but a credible one. In basketball all players attack and defend, and you cannot perceive that as "easy" or "immediate".

And that is why I personally love BB more than HT

this thread is about finding ideas to attract new users and keep them

In fact, to attract people use "viral" marketing: we are enthousiastic of BB because it's the best game. Keep people making the first time experience as much attracting as you can. I saw many people entering in my conference and playing just 1 game.

complexity, not compliant. At least, not too me and an exciting one.

"it depends upon my team's philosophy".

I don't like the assistant. However, I would like (when I was a newbie ;)) to have information based on what I want to do. At the beginning (so close to me...) I had to decide among that variety of options that make BB exciting. But let's say I wish to play R&G, which are the players (aka shooters) should I pick up? Or if I want to dominate the defense, what should I pick up? It's similar to choose attackers, defenders and goalkeepers in HT, and even there that does not mean that's the best team - look at secondary skills and overall balance!

So, no smart coach (or we can make him to play instead of us), and freedom to do experiment (and tomorrow I will challenge princeton once more!)

would it be possible to set a tactic and have an "assistant coach" help you pick the best players?? (like a suggestion from the coach, not the best available)

That way you make it easier for players that cant be bothered however you dont make it too easy. What I mean to say is that it would still be possible for people to pick the wrong tactics... so that the people that really want to spend time on the team can scout the opponent and pick the suitable tactics and than ask the coach for help or pick the players themselves??

I dont know if something like this or something similar to this would be possible.

The assistant coach doesnt necessarily make the best possible decision, but helps?

i dont know if it is clear what I am trying to say you understand... I hope you do :)