BuzzerBeater Forums

Ah yes :-) A recorded Daytrader.

You made about 250,000$ from daytrading just in the last 3 weeks (248,600$) averaging about 80,000$ per week!! And in these profits the 83,400$ profit is form just one player! And this not the heaviest daytrading I ve seen. Far from it.
And you lost from tickets how much? 10k$? 30k$ maximum

Now how one who is playing the game as it should be played (about game strategy, players strategy, training strategy etc) will be able to compete with you while you make at least double profit per week from what he is getting and so you can buy better and more expensive players?

No game strategy can win much better players! And this is an Unfair Advantage!
Maybe we should stop playing games and announce the champion the one who has the most money....

I am all for different opportunities and strategies in a game. But as far as they are balanced and they create equal chances but with just different way. Now you tell what other strategy could bring as much money as Daytrading?? None. Well that is what it makes it Unfair Advantage. Also people want to play this game and use their brain to be competitive and not spend all their day searching the Transfer List and click, click, click the buy and sell buttons just to keep up.
That is another Unfair "Opportunity".

Skills that should be needed to be competitive and to advance should be Strategy (games strategy, roster strategy, training strategy etc) and Management and this is what should be rewarded and not every day selling and buying. This skill could be used in a different game as it was mentioned in a previous post.

And I think IMHO calling this a "game opportunity" would be fair if you would not use it and then acknowledge it as such! I my self MIGHT be forced to use it as well (have not done it yet) just in order to stay competitive with the guys (hm hm) who use this "opportunity". But I will still cry AGAINST it and I will say that this is an unfair advantage and that it should be restricted further more - not eliminated.

And thats why I suggested these restrictions in my post above. So one could use this tactic either as a strategy either because he was in need for but the unfair advantage would be eliminated.

The players who play, win and advance due to brain work, choosing correct strategies and management should be rewarded more (much more) than any other "opportunity" in the game.
That is my feelings for a game that I loved it very fast and its growing.

This player
http://www.buzzerbeater.com/BBWeb/playerbox.aspx?PlayerID...
was bought and sold within 3 days. It made a 177,600$ profit for his seller!!!
In just 3 days! From just one player! Without any additional training obviously so one could justify his earnings after the work he had done!!!

I know a LOT of players who need 8 or more weeks to make this profit. So this is not a 2k salary player for a new players. I ve seen much worst cases. This is just a recent one I recorded.

That is unfair advantage and that is why it is destroying the game.

Ah yes :-) A recorded Daytrader.

You made about 250,000$ from daytrading just in the last 3 weeks (248,600$) averaging about 80,000$ per week!! And in these profits the 83,400$ profit is form just one player! And this not the heaviest daytrading I ve seen. Far from it.
And you lost from tickets how much? 10k$? 30k$ maximum

i just trade minute fillers, i use to give minutes in scrimmage so that my stars stay in a good shape unfortunately i just got 10 good players, who could help me that level i play.

But if you count that, don't forget i just get 76% of the money who is paid for my players thats reduces the revenue too. And with which player i earn 80k+$???

I don't know how much ticketing i loss,but in comparision to the middle season i amke 30-40k less per game, but i got many looses the game before but what is more important next season i am going to sell one or two of my trainees and even tehre my transfer fees are higher - so i will going to loose much money there two so i suppose i make no profit with those little selles i made the last days ;) But i got the categories that fans know my team even with normal transfer to a low value.

Now how one who is playing the game as it should be played (about game strategy, players strategy, training strategy etc) will be able to compete with you while you make at least double profit per week from what he is getting and so you can buy better and more expensive players?

Double profit, good joke :)

And i don't see that much untalented Daytraders winning national Championship so far, so maybe it ain't that superior like you think.

I looked at your league and you basically whine about your sides top team. He is trading like hell but his main cash has come from 850k sell and it seems that either the buyer was complete idiot as he selled it after that for ~250k. Seems a little 2 headed monster at first glance.
Yes day trading could be stopped by "player has to play one league game for the team". Are there any problems implementing this? dunno it's for the BB guys to figure out. Better cheater detecting and better general price knowledge should keep daytraders at bay even with current rules.
How come people still buy players for ridiculous prices. Someone has to buy the daytrader trash and sadly that's the average dumbo who has just gathered enough cast to check the TL:(

But if you count that, don't forget i just get 76% of the money who is paid for my players thats reduces the revenue too. And with which player i earn 80k+$???

Its 80% and I have counted that in your profits so they are net profits :-)

Jonas Waynen http://www.buzzerbeater.com/BBWeb/playerTransferHistory.a...

Was bought on 23 Dec 2008 for 197,000$. Was sold on 28 Dec 2008 for 312,000$ so:
312,000x80%=249,600-197,000=52,600
Misstyped the 5 for 8. My mistake ... but this was a good opportunity to show my new friend who started the thread how he can make a very easy 50k which he would make eerrmm in 4-5 weeks IF he manages he finances well.

But there is another one of your tradings this time with over 80K profit

Ivano Agostini (4628717) http://www.buzzerbeater.com/BBWeb/playerbox.aspx?playerID...

Was bought on 17 Dec 2008 for 76,000$. Was sold on 20 Dec 2008 for 200,000$ so:
200,000x80%=160,600-76,000=83,400

Like a good sales professional you are I see you keep god records of your profits :-) {/joke}

Double profit, good joke :)

And i don't see that much untalented Daytraders winning national Championship so far, so maybe it ain't that superior like you think.

Indeed :-) Pro and all day dedicated daytraders could make triple... :-)
Its a new game and you ll soon see the payments of the Daytraders' efforts with their team going fast on top. Check Hattrick for proof.

So from what I see you did nt understand my points and you still think its good thing... that is for the game? or just for you? ;-)

Last edited by Sosta at 1/18/2009 1:19:07 PM

The tax system in place has worked to drastically reduce daytrading.

Daytrading will never be stamped out completely, nor should we choke the economy to do so.

i pay higher fees, because i sold more players in the last 14 weeks, exactly i sold 14 player in this time ;) When this system Startet, my fee are lower then actually.

And i thought you mean the 80k in the last two week^^

PS: In ht the most div I teams, ain't traders so it isn't impossible to get on top without trading, maybe it is impossible to win the Master or the BB but there are also kamikaze Teams who did not trade.

The tax system in place has worked to drastically reduce daytrading.

Daytrading will never be stamped out completely, nor should we choke the economy to do so.

Your answer has nothing to do with my posts. I could easily explain you that with details and arguments but I feel there is no point.

Only thing I can say is that I have the strong feeling that you did nt read well my posts or you did not understand them. Maybe my English is bad.... I dont know...

I agree with GM-JuicePats. I've read all your posts and I hope I understood them but I dont agree. I think daytrading is very risky: You can earn much money by it but you can lost even more. I believe what is done against it is sufficient. And I think playing a game would not do much - the player is bought, plays a game a is sold just after the game. It is not so difficult to adjust your tactics so that he plays no more than 5 minutes so he doesn't do much trouble when he's a bad one.

Last edited by PunkFloid at 1/18/2009 3:29:04 PM

And I feel even more sorry about it when I see GMs explaining to new players how to do it instead of discouraging them and show them how the game should really be played.

I am not saying that it should not be a part of the game at all. But it should be restricted in such a way that people who daytrade should NOT get and ADVANTAGE (which they do now) over the people who play and make wins and advance or/and is making training strategies.

well.
As a GM , I think the task of GMs is to answer and help people with their questions as good as possible, as long as it is within the margins of the rules.

I like to point out to you that you seem to request from others that they read your posts well, while you don't seemed to have noticed I actually was discouraging daytrading by telling it is prety hard to do. And it is!

buying a 2k player and selling him for 125k to a noob isn't daytrading, it's cheating, and GMs WILL reduce the economy of the seller to a regular price for the player, which will nullify the profit, while the seller still paid the tax.
So doing this kind of 'trading' is a no go!

For your second paragraph I am totally puzzled about how you can write such a controversy.
It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to not get advantage from daytrading if you do it right. You put training and game play at the other end of the balance, but truth is that when everyone manages to do this all correct and gains maximum benefit from it, the gain from daytrading, even though limited by BB, will ALWAYS be an advantage, no matter how you turn it.

There are a ton of waterproof anti-day-trading systems that could be implemented, and all kinds of tricks won't work as good. a player needs to play 1 game per time he is put on the TL, ...rubbish, that is no anti daytrading system, is is a limitation, yes, but it won't take it away.
In BB there are limitations already, and prety good ones if you ask me.
per player you can not gain a big profit, since then it would be selling over regular prices and you will get a fine. users do not see this, so they might think it works, but no it realy doesn't, if someone sees it and reports it (and chances someone sees it are realy big since the TL is always crowded with interested people) you loose all your profit and risk a fine if you don't report it yourself!
So limited profit per player.
Then, the tax system makes sure the amount of players is limited too, since after a few, the taxes get so high, that even if you can get more from him then you paid yourself, you won't get to keep enough money after taxes to make profit from it.

Believe me. Even the cracks at daytrading can't make a huge amount from it.

Should BB decide it has to go, that nobody even can daytrade, it is easy to establish. A player bought needs to stay in the team for at least a full season, and has to play at least 15 games before he can get sold. End of trading. Period. This wouldn't even limit selling your own draftees and trainees.
So untill BB brings such a system, they do not want to destroy daytrading, because it IS part of the game.

If tomorrow someone comes to the forums complainting that expanding arena's gives an unfair advantage, what would you like BB to do? Set default arena sizes for all teams?
Do not reply to me by telling it is diffrent, because it isn't. It's part of the game. And the one who wants to see it gone can say just as well this is a manager simulation, where setting your tactics is the key, and arenadiffrences are unfair. To me it is just as valid as your argument.
Every aspect in BB is part of the game. if something arises BB wants out of it, they will make sure it happens. So if they don't, it's part of the game.

Hope you understand.

I am sorry but I dont agree with you.

Even I have little time in the game I spend _a lot_ of hours in it everyday so I have a good view of what is going, specially with daytrades. And I feel that what is done is not sufficient.

Its very easy to earn "unfair" cash and quite hard to lose money if you have the minimum common sense. And even more in a fast - very fast way and from what I understand this is a long term game. Some examples I gave above and the everyday daytrades I see are the proofs.
Not to mention to servers excessive workload because of it that it could bring.

I never said eliminating all I said is restricting the unfair advantage that is gained from the big profits comparable to not doing it specially when you are in low or middle levels. It gives the impulse to people not to try and win and advance but to make big profits fast and then... win easily (or much easier) with the good players one can buy.

I was thinking same with you when I saw that restriction in Hattrick but from what I read it has helped. So I guess it would help here too. Maybe it would help more if they should play at least lets say 24-48 mins...? Is that better? In this case it would help more here than in Hattrick because here you have 5 players and not 11. So your arguments of not being enough is solved?
And I dont see in no way how this would crunch the economy.

Also you said nothing about the 2nd suggestion I made....
I have another idea as well: with players' contracts which would bring ( I think) more strategy, more management and less daytrading too. Maybe its not here the right place to post and I think I will do it in the suggestion forum.
[Added and posted at (69216.1)]


I feel (and prove it to my self every time I see it done) that Daytrading is totally against the concept of Basketball management game and that it brings unfair advantages. Small proofs the examples I gave above. Bigger proofs if you check the earning of the daytraders.

Also if BB realted guys feel this way about daytrading: that is that it does nt bring unfair advantages, that it is within the concept of the game and it is a "strategy" every can use and that it helps economy then I wonder why my post in the thread (68835.1) was deleted?

Last edited by Sosta at 1/18/2009 5:56:33 PM