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I'm training a PF in OD atm. Easy to do in a scrim each week. From what you are saying even teams in Div II and ABBL should not be training guys for the 21 NT side. If they can't afford to train secondaries. what is the difference in having a 50k C play a G with poor G skills then a 3k rookie? At least the 50k guy can rebound and make some inside shots. It is not perfect use of the guy but training guys never is.

Yeah, like you gonna promote immediately after training your U21 player. Lots of fun paying a 50k or more guy to play him out of position because you didn't train the secondaries when he was cheap, too! I'm gonna tell one a secret d3 manager, D2 won't forgive that kind of mistake! Try it and you'll most likely be stuck in mediocrity for a looooong stretch.

I sincerly hope this is not the kind of things you advise to other managers. Or well, from a personnal standpoint, I was kinda happy to have a bunch of terrible managers who allowed my to train some 19yo guys in d2.

Are you saying you don't train 19 year olds as you are in Div II

A'ight, I'll make it quick because I'm not that cool guy handing out advices.

1. The difference between paying a 50k guy to play PG and a 3k guy is that both will get smashed, but you'll pay one 47k more than the other. Salary efficiency fundamentals, dear Watson. So now, while I train my crappy 3k guy, I can afford a 47k guy to play in his true position and carry the 3k guy. You can't do that with your 50k guy.

2. Other managers should not have let me train 19yo in d2. They should beat the sh!t out of me and send me back to d3. Instead I was able to train these little fellas while making ways more money than I'd have in d3. They made it easy for me. This had lead my team having a real shot at promoting, something you shouldn't want as an opponent. There are 16 teams, only 1 can promote.

Basics, dude.

Well in Div III and Div IV there are many weeks where you have 3asy games. Playing a guy out of position and defending in position is not a huge deal. You can;t do it all the time but its doable. Getting a guy with 12 core skills will be a big deal for a lot of newer teams. They will not cost 50k and buying a guy like that will cost a lot more then training.
I won games I had my PF playing PG still. Win is a win.

Are you saying no one in Div IV or Div III should training guys for the 21 NT side? And that guys in Div II and ABBL should not be able to do so? So only tankers should be training guys? Just trying to understand your position.

People in lower divisions can train guys for the 21 NT side and it also work for their teams. how much do most these sides spend on buying players with poor builds because they have a couple of high level stats?

Their teams needs can be meet while still training a guy for the 21 Nt side. I know my guy is my best player atm and came 4th in MVP voting even playing PG a fair bit during the season. Unless you are totally focused on promoting each season I don't see the issue.

Teams starting our can train a guy for 21 NT side with more mono skills and he would get and keep them in DIv III and then finish his training before trying to move up to Div II. Too many teams IMO promote quickly and are not ready for moving up to the next level and drop back again. Which for me seems a waste. I prefer to take my time and build slower and when moving up stay at the next level. I am currently training 3 guys. My PF and 2 Gs. As they get more complete I am hoping they are the core of my side when I make ABBL. The PF is joining in as the 3rd G trainee and when he drops off I will be getting a SF to join in also and then go back to bigs and train a couple of Cs with him and I will have 6 guys I trained being the main part of my side. Buy a couple of new guys and I'm ready to make ti to the top.

Teams in Div IV can start working towards getting their side together and training a guy for the 21 NT side can fit into that and also give them more enjoyment and involvement in the game. I am totally against new sides training complete mono skills guys but they can still work towards a 21 NT players. And even if they don't make it they can learn from trying to do it. Where else can these guys get help with their builds?

I'll give you my definition of a NT manager, even if nobody cares :p
- set the line up
- select the worthy players
- save the high potential and talented ones from going bot
- let people know about the skills of the NT players
- discuss the tactics if someone is interested

That's a simplistic and basic overview of what an U21 Coaches job is.

What I would want from my U21 Coach is all of the above plus:
- Consistent contact with players coaches regarding Game Shape and training plans
- Scouting players, Rival U21 Teams and tactics
- Updates of how the team is going in the BB-Forums
- Firm grasp of training tactics (elastic effects)

I only really know 2 of the candidates through the fishbowl, however I did stay in contact with Mickyster regarding his U21 player when I was coach for 2 seasons.

I hope that you guys take into account what I've said, as I have been in the position before. You may find the workload quite troublesome at times and feel like you don't receive the respect that you deserve. Most likely you'll find one manager in particular that will question your every move and drive you insane (Cough-Latino-Cough). But other than that, it's an honor to be an NT manager, especially from your home country.

It is a lot of work. And a lot once one has the job with a limited time to do an scouting of our players. Thankfully I can take a couple of days off next week if I win to get a lot done early.

You didn't add anything to that list (scouting is a part of setting the line up). Game shape and training plan, that's because you're a nice guy. It's out of your hands.

@ Mickyster: okay, you might win game with your monoskilled 50k PF playing at PG in d3. But again, my 3k guy can perform just as well. That means I could also win games with him and that I can spare 47k per week doing so. From here on I'm free to use it the way I want. If I'm playing crap teams, I could either spare it so as to buy that 47k guy when I'll need him or eventually pay a better trainer (no, you're not gonna pay 800k for a level 6-7 trainer that you can afford with your 50k guy // I can pay less for a more expensive high level trainer 40 - 60k salary).

I'm not saying people can't train their players for the U21. I'm saying that what is usually recommended is financially highly unadvisable.

He is far from mono skilled. There are a lot of mono skilled guys and that is why the 21 NT teams can have lots of C and SG/PG and little or no PF and SFs. MY guy is better passer then some of my Gs and others then low Jr is a bit better then a 3k trainee.
As for trainers unless you have a HoF guy you want in the NT and hqve heaps of cash I suggest most teams never get more then a level 5 trainer and should think level 4 is enough for almost all teams. According to the stats level 4 is the best value. It may not be 100% true but a level 4 is enough to get someone into the 21 NT side. I did it with one of my guys by the time he was 20.

You didn't add anything to that list (scouting is a part of setting the line up). Game shape and training plan, that's because you're a nice guy. It's out of your hands.

I said you gave a simplistic view of an U21 Coaches job. Therefore I extrapolated
Read my post again mate.

What I would want from my U21 Coach is all of the above plus:
- Consistent contact with players coaches regarding Game Shape and training plans
- Scouting players, Rival U21 Teams and tactics
- Updates of how the team is going in the BB-Forums
- Firm grasp of training tactics (elastic effects)

I'd personally much rather a candidate who would go to these lengths than one that wouldn't.

Last edited by Leeroy at 6/13/2013 3:48:36 AM

EZ, I'm probably going to vote for you.

I really like Mickyster and Mr Green as managers, but I like your approach.
It's no nonsense and that rubs my bits the right way.

Being the U21/NT manager isn't about baking cookies and brushing each others hair while we sit around in our underwear talking about boys.

It's about putting the best available team together and playing to our strengths and against our opponents weaknesses.
And I'm not saying that the other guys aren't capable of doing that, I just think the focus is misplaced.

I've noticed alot of "how do you get everyone involved?" lines of questioning.
Getting 70+ managers to get involved when they never do, never make a forum post but continue to be active as team managers is near impossible, you can't offer someone something intangible to make them change their habits. So this is why you have polls with only 16 votes, this is why only 30ish people voted last time around. You simply can't get people to do things they either don't want to or CBF doing.

What our U21 team needs is for the best draftees to go to the committed managers and not wasting away with deadbeat nobodies who are life members of div3/4. It's really simple.. If the best trainers got the best rookies we would dominate.
You can convince new managers to train their studs to a point, but will they maintain focus, when it gets boring to them? when that player exceeds their salary affordability? Unfortunately it's an imperfect system and we need the managers that do give a sh!t to keep training studs.

So you are saying the manager of the 21 NT side should not waste their time trying to get more people training players? You don't need to be a MVP+ to be a good 21 NT player. So there is a chance for lots of people to train guys for the team.

Picking the best squad and then the best lineup each game is a quick process and even if I don't win I would be disappointed if that was all the person who won was worried about doing.