BuzzerBeater Forums

I'd be disgusted to think of Magic and Bird playing on the same team for 5 seasons for a free 5 championships essentially.

You act like these guys won without help. Bird played with all time greats like McHale and Parish, both named as part of the 50 Greatest players in NBA history. He also won with guys like Dennis Johnson and Bill Walton, both of whom had won the Finals MVP before joining the Celtics (Walton had even won the regular season MVP), and he had HOFer Tiny Archibald for his first championship.

Magic played with Kareem, who many consider to be the second greatest player of all time. In 1982, when the Lakers were defending champs, they also had the first overall pick. Imagine that happening today, if the Cavs had the number one pick this year. The Lakers used their pick on James Worthy who was also selected as one of the 50 Greatest players in NBA history. The 1987 Laker squad, considered the best Laker team of the Magic-Kareem era and one of the best teams of all time, had 4 former first overall picks playing for them.

When MJ retired in 1993, his team won 55 games without him (a drop of two games from the previous season). I don't think any team Lebron's played on would've won 55 games without him. When Lebron left the Cavs in 2010, they won 19 games (a drop of 42 games) and won 3 of the next 4 draft lotteries. For all this talk of the Heat being a superteam, when he left them in 2014, they won 37 games and couldn't even make the playoffs in the East. Over the past two years, the Cavs are 4-14 without Lebron.

Now I'm not saying I think Lebron is better than MJ or Magic, I just think its unfair to fault him for wanting to play with help. Other all-time greats had the good luck to have excellent management who built great teams around them. Also, stars joining to form superteams isn't a new concept. Back in the 60s, Wilt Chamberlain, the then reigning MVP wanted to leave the 76ers and teamed up with fellow all-time greats Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. These 3 guys are all in the top 6 for career PPG, which is pretty crazy if you think about it.

And remember, Barkely did team up with Hakeem and Clyde in Houston to try and win a championship.

Last edited by Mountaineer at 6/21/2016 5:49:11 PM

There's a fine line between playing with help. (Or in Wolph's scenario of Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant, 2 players drafted by the same team.) Between playing with help, and communicating throughout a season, and making plans to take pay cuts to play together and form a super team.

Larry Bird was not out there on a golf course (because he loves golf) with McHale and Parish when they were playing for a different team going "Guys, let's all take pay cuts and play together".

There's a big difference between a GM getting help and building a roster around their star player. Than there is, their star player, going out, and playing GM themselves with other star players, and then going to a GM and being like. Okay, now make this happen, and for role players we need... a "mike miller" type or a "mo williams type" etc.

I'll give you a cross sports example:
How many people would still watch football if the Los Angeles Rams (big media market) just had... Von Miller, muhammed Wilkerson, JJ Watt, Khalil Mack, Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Chris Harris, Lavonte David, Aaron Donald, Luke Kuechly, Joe Thomas, Tyron Smith, Mashall Yanda, Alex Mack, Zack Martin, Le'Veon Bell, Todd Gurley, Cam Newton, Antonio brown, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Rob Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham. All say they'll come there and all just play for 2 million guaranteed for 3 years together. And that all you got to do is fill in the back-ups/reserves/replacements for injuries.

And that they'll just go to their 3-4-5 whatever consecutive super bowls and take their chances there. And just make up the difference in money in endorsements and the post-super bowl circus of media events.

Would you still watch NFL as passionately? Would you think NFL isn't a joke anymore?

as to your Barkley point-out. Again, that was at the end of Barkley's career. An "overweight" player at age 33. And If I recall... Barkley played 4 of his worst seasons ever there in Houston.

I would give you more merit on this one had Barkley done it in the prime of his career. EX: LeBron, when he left Cleveland was 26. he returned to Cleveland 4 finals and 2 titles later at 30.

The Boston Celtics example would have been a good one as Paul Pierce was 30, Garnett was 30 and Ray Allen was 32. Garnett played 8 seasons after that move, Allen played 6 more after that move (including his 2 waning final years with James, Wade, and Bosh), and Pierce played 8 more seasons after that happened. So it wasn't exactly the end of their careers either, you could Argue they were still in their prime except for Allen maybe.

You act like these guys won without help.

You are also putting words in my mouth and making assumptions and trying to pass them off as fact.

Last edited by RamenQueen at 6/22/2016 12:10:57 AM

is Anyone tuning in to watch a team made up of every superstar at their respected position from each country of a World Cup team. Are we going to watch a game of the super-star lineup to play a long regular season vs the Barbados national team? or the national team from Kuwait?


Or how about we have the 5 "best" real life basketball players that use buzzer beater. play against the starting 5 of any of the NBA play off teams? Does that sound like a fun watch? Do you think there's any suspense?

Would anyone read a book that had a movie made from it, if there were ZERO differences between the book and the movie? Its not fun or entertaining to watch something where you already know the outcome.

I like the NBA playoffs as much as the next girl, but to say that the regular season is enjoyable to watch. I personally (that's the key here boys. my personal feelings, and emotions, and opinion here) is that the regular season is a complete joke, and a waste of my time from october-march.

Last edited by RamenQueen at 6/22/2016 12:00:09 AM

There's a fine line between playing with help. (Or in Wolph's scenario of Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant, 2 players drafted by the same team.) Between playing with help, and communicating throughout a season, and making plans to take pay cuts to play together and form a super team.

Larry Bird was not out there on a golf course (because he loves golf) with McHale and Parish when they were playing for a different team going "Guys, let's all take pay cuts and play together".

Lol, of course they weren't, cause they were already playing together. Your comparing apples to oranges. I also love how, people hold the Cav's front office moves, against Lebron. The best player they brought in to help was a 80 year old Shaq. I'm sure it would have been different if Lebron and Cavs would have continued to struggle, allowing themselves to be in the lottery, year after year. I mean, lets be fair about building a team around him, until D'wade and Bosh. He didn't get to play with another top 10 draftee, other than Luke Jackson year 2 at pick 10(who?). So the blame, your putting on him, isn't really fair. Litterly over night, he took Cleveland from Lottery to out of the Lottery. 5 years into Jordan's compain, they were still drafting as low as 8.... when they traded up to get Scotty Pippen, but yes, please hold that against Lebron too.

When leBron was drafted they had some players that were of a decent caliber, but they did not decide to stick around.

Rickey Davis
Carlos Boozer

and while Darius Miles is and will always be a bust. LeBron made Miles look good.

What can I say. I'm more of a purist when it comes to sports. I guess this is what happens when someone of my generation tries to talk and such with people of a (presumably?) younger generation.

Course...LeBron did make the front office get rid of Delonte West. LeBron had reasons. He felt they were valid. I think in the grand scheme of how most people would handle it he did quite well.

But if you try and say LeBron has 0 impact on the front office decisions. *buzzer sound effect* nice try.

Now. this thread really should die. There's bb-mail if would like to preach to me more, without bumping a thread that should be dead and retired.

Last edited by RamenQueen at 6/22/2016 5:09:13 AM

Lebron is simply the best all around player in the league. Not even close.

Put him on this year's 76er team and they would probably just miss the playoffs.