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Player Skills

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1357.12 in reply to 1357.11
Date: 10/1/2007 5:27:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
2121
By alienated I think he means the players won't fit into the team because they wont have team benefiting skills like passing and outside defense.

I think if outside skills are training at a faster speed then inside skills then it is possibly balanced.

What we don't know is the details of the combinations. People need to do some research on all of this before we start re-inventing the system. OR the BBs explain it without giving away the secrets.

Creator of (http://www.buzzerbeaterstats.com) and (http://www.buzzerbeaternews.com/) -- Ex GM of Australia -- Division 1 winner of Italy Season 1 then moved team to Australia after the country was created by the BBs. Australian team manager for 2 seasons. Won various tournaments and division 1 titles in the following seasons.
This Post:
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1357.13 in reply to 1357.12
Date: 10/1/2007 5:34:38 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1616
Ok, I think I got a "false cognate" here. I meant "alienado", but aparentely in english "alienated" is not the right word. What I meant was "a person (player) that can only do 1 thing". As an opposite to "complete player".

Just like you, I think complete players are better then an "alienado" player :D

That's why i'm concerned about the JS training. But if goes much faster then Inside skills, then I guess it would be ok. But I'm sure it doesn't, because I train JS in optimal conditions on my main guards, and they train the same or even slower then some inside training, cause my brother trains inside players and we follow our training in details together. I guided him into setting up a inside training kinda like yours.

This Post:
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1357.14 in reply to 1357.13
Date: 10/1/2007 7:05:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Wasn't try to call you out, just calm you down, you seemed pretty fired up before. Anyways...

In a previous post you mention driving being a key skill for guards, is that pretty standard thought? I've been considering it on the same level with passing, more of a "nice to have" than a "need to have".

I totally agree that there should be some sort of balance to training speeds if guards need 6 skills to be considered complete and inside guys only need 4. The question is, do guards really "need" 6 skills, or can they get by without the driving and passing?

This Post:
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1357.15 in reply to 1357.14
Date: 10/1/2007 8:22:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1616
I also didn't consider Driving as a skill of primary importance. For me the top three for guards would be JS, Outside D, and Pass. Handling would come in a close 4th. But I guess other people may think differentely.

Anyway, the Jump SHot training considers Driving and Jump range as the secondaries required for you not to have a slow training, and that is the problem. If you rotate training on those 3 skills, you will have just a shooter, while rotating Inside shot, inside def and rebounding you will have a complete player.

That was my complaint all along. If the dependencies of Jump SHot were Outside Def and Passing then it would be better.

But the truth is that I don't like this dependencies. I don't buy the excuses given to say that Inside Shot training can give you pops in Inside Defense (and vice-versa). I think offensive training is one thing and defensive is another.

Edited 10/1/2007 8:26:14 PM by GM-Raonne

This Post:
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1357.16 in reply to 1357.15
Date: 10/1/2007 8:37:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
You count jump range below driving?

I didn't realize the dependencies were training-based, I assumed they were skill-based. For instance, I thought that no matter what I trained (jump shot, outside scoring, one on one) that the same 6 (or 4 for inside guys) were being taken into account to see how much training my guys received. I didn't think that different trainings had different dependencies built into them? How do you know this, by the way? Just assuming since driving and jump range also pop when training jump shot?

If it's training-based, then why not pick a training like outside scoring that trains more skills (I believe it does, anyway) than one like jump shot that does fewer skills?

This Post:
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1357.17 in reply to 1357.16
Date: 10/1/2007 10:42:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1616
this idea is based mostly on the pops, yes. But also on some explanations from the BB's.

Anyway, I believe training Outside shooting will train more your Range, and some on your JS and Driving. And if you train One on One you get more Driving, and some JS and Range.

still, the rotation of these training will create a shooting specialist, and nothing more.

I can rotate my training on Jump shot, outside defense (pressure) and passing, but then my training will be slow because those three are no co-related when it comes to training.

I think most people got what I'm saying by now...

This Post:
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1357.18 in reply to 1357.17
Date: 10/1/2007 11:35:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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I understand what you're saying, just trying to make sure we're all on the same page here. Do pressure and passing have any related skills? I know pressure also trains inside D, but that doesn't do much for guards.

What are the related skills for the inside guys?

By the way...
I'm still not convinced (until I get confirmation from the BBs) that this training penalty has to do with your training and not with the actual skills of the player. If this is the case, the issue isn't as big of a deal.

This Post:
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1357.19 in reply to 1357.18
Date: 10/2/2007 1:40:42 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
2121
From what I understand about training and complementary skills:

Outside skills for shooting are Driving, Jump Shot and Jump Range.

Outside skills for control and defense are Outside Defense, Passing and Handling.

Inside skills for everything are Inside Shot, Inside Defense, Rebounding and Shot Blocking.

Can you point out the forum topic where someone has experienced inside def increasing when training pressure? I have not experienced this and I was training Outside D for a while.

Creator of (http://www.buzzerbeaterstats.com) and (http://www.buzzerbeaternews.com/) -- Ex GM of Australia -- Division 1 winner of Italy Season 1 then moved team to Australia after the country was created by the BBs. Australian team manager for 2 seasons. Won various tournaments and division 1 titles in the following seasons.
This Post:
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1357.20 in reply to 1357.19
Date: 10/2/2007 1:56:44 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
The thread citing a double pop is from the 9/14/07 training thread in the USA conf, post #8, from one GM-BadLarry.

The outside skill groupings make sense. If the inside skills are really all trained (if even to a small degree) by any/all of those 4 trainings, then I think that's pretty bogus. I don't see why that group can't be broken into two parts: inside scoring/defense and rebounding/shot blocking.

This Post:
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1357.21 in reply to 1357.20
Date: 10/2/2007 2:00:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5050
(1202.9) I can attest. It really did happen.

This Post:
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1357.22 in reply to 1357.20
Date: 10/2/2007 3:07:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
2121
If I dont become a BB I intend to do some heavy analytical work with whoever trusts me with their player pop stats

Creator of (http://www.buzzerbeaterstats.com) and (http://www.buzzerbeaternews.com/) -- Ex GM of Australia -- Division 1 winner of Italy Season 1 then moved team to Australia after the country was created by the BBs. Australian team manager for 2 seasons. Won various tournaments and division 1 titles in the following seasons.
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