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BB USA > U21 National Team Debate Thread

U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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252150.12 in reply to 252150.11
Date: 12/24/2013 10:01:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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I don't quite agree with you. I feel like last season, the USA NT probably has a much harder time to get to finals and may have not got there at all if the decision to throw the game against Panama wasn't made. There are certain cases where you could and should throw a game in my opinion.

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
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252150.13 in reply to 252150.12
Date: 12/24/2013 10:42:44 PM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
I don't recall a single time where the U21 has ever thrown a game. We are always the best continental team, and it's stupid to throw a game during Worlds. In fact the U21 has not even lost a game during continentals in 10 seasons, or 18 months.

Sure the NT has a history of throwing a game during continentals to better align who they face in the semis. The US is not the world power at the NT level that it is at the U21 level(another discussion for another election).

So, no there is not any incident where we should ever throw a U21 game, which is all that needs to be known at this level.

This Post:
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252150.14 in reply to 252150.13
Date: 12/24/2013 10:49:09 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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The original question was asking about in what situations would we be willing to throw a game if at all. So although we probably will not come across this situation, the point is, that if we were to come across it, my approach would be to look at the bigger picture and do whatever is necessary in order for our U21 NT to succeed and get further in the tournament. Do I believe that we will come across it? Not particularly. However, I felt he has a right for an answer to his question, rather than saying that we won't have to worry about it because it probably won't happen.

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
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252150.15 in reply to 252150.14
Date: 12/24/2013 10:56:40 PM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
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We'll never throw a game during worlds, since it's win and advance, so there's no position jockeying there.

If, let's say, Canada has the best U21 BB has ever seen and winning our final game means we face them in the semis, than, yes, I would consider throwing that game so we don't have to face them until the meaningless finals. That's not going to happen ever, unless some of those farm team players have dual Canadian citizenship.

From: Jelme

This Post:
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252150.16 in reply to 252150.14
Date: 12/24/2013 10:58:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5050
And the U21 has thrown a game oriolekid. I believe you were new at the time.

In what situations would you ignore go against popular opinion (on the offsite mostly) and go on your own?

From: E.B.W.

This Post:
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252150.17 in reply to 252150.16
Date: 12/24/2013 11:12:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Not many situations at all. I'm a team player. If the offsite members (Mainly A Warrior, Hunterz, and fewmit) all think something different than what I had in mind, I'm just going to have to suck it up, because if the majority of the group believes one thing and they have good points, then I trust them. It comes down to the saying "We can agree to disagree". I may disagree with what they are saying but I have to respect their opinions and if they have other people backing them up then I see no reason to not go with the majority. This is why it is also important to get more people involved on the offsite, because then there are more voices to be heard and on hard decisions there will be more perspectives involved.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 12/24/2013 11:13:28 PM

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
This Post:
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252150.18 in reply to 252150.1
Date: 12/24/2013 11:15:59 PM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
706706
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
BB-Charles, can you use your powers and relegate my team into the abyss of BB, D-VI. I'd like to further slide into the depths of absurdity as I discretely add another impressive accolade to my collection. Upsyndrome, D-VI champions! I envision my fame reaching new heights, as I'd be widely viewed across BB as the KBD of the lower level divisions.

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
This Post:
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252150.19 in reply to 252150.17
Date: 12/24/2013 11:26:23 PM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
You are elected to lead, not to follow.

Now with that said I agree with you. Except many a times, I believe Jelme most famously, has gone against the popular opinion with both good, and bad results. Jelme is one of the best U21 coaches we've ever had.

As the manager you know the team better than anyone. If with 100% of your heart, you believe that 2-3 zoning against a dominant LI team will yield better results than just M2M, than consult the offsite, see what they want, and if you're not convinced completely to follow their advice, than screw it. The offsite, like any group of more than five people, tends to level out at play it safe. Sometimes playing it safe simply does not work.

Now if all week people have been saying play LI, with Lineup A, and then you set your lineup as RNG with lineup B, without telling anyone because of a gut feeling, than you have a serious problem and don't deserve to be managing.

Message deleted
This Post:
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252150.21 in reply to 252150.19
Date: 12/25/2013 12:14:38 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
26152615
That is exactly right. The manager is suppose to be a leader, but at the same time they need to be a team player. Obviously in cases where there are split ideas that are about 50/50 I will go with my own opinion and trust my gut, however in cases where many of the people on the offsite disagree with my approach I have the willpower to go with other experienced managers who agree with each other and not go with my own way due to being to selfish and close minded. With that being said, you and I both know that I have been vastly more involved with the U21 NT than you so I feel like I would be able to hold accurate stances on the players and roster and tactic setup. At the same time fewmit, Hunterz, A Warrior and a couple other managers are also in the same boat as myself. I look to lead this team with the help of all of them and whoever else wants to get involved.

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
From: Isaiah

This Post:
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252150.22 in reply to 252150.5
Date: 12/25/2013 12:23:14 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Here's my question for you fine gentleman....

In what situations would you "throw" a game?


Great question. Throwin a game at the U21 level is rarer than the NT level but certainly has there places. I know others said they wouldn't ever throw a game, but the goal is to win a gold and that might be needed. During the worlds we may have a situation where intentionally losing a game could guarantee us an easier group or avoid playing a stronger team. These would e the times we could think about throwing a game, but like I said, it won't happen often.

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