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BB Australia > U21 National Team Debate Thread

U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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242993.122 in reply to 242993.121
Date: 6/13/2013 3:41:08 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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He is far from mono skilled. There are a lot of mono skilled guys and that is why the 21 NT teams can have lots of C and SG/PG and little or no PF and SFs. MY guy is better passer then some of my Gs and others then low Jr is a bit better then a 3k trainee.
As for trainers unless you have a HoF guy you want in the NT and hqve heaps of cash I suggest most teams never get more then a level 5 trainer and should think level 4 is enough for almost all teams. According to the stats level 4 is the best value. It may not be 100% true but a level 4 is enough to get someone into the 21 NT side. I did it with one of my guys by the time he was 20.

From: Leeroy

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242993.123 in reply to 242993.121
Date: 6/13/2013 3:46:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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You didn't add anything to that list (scouting is a part of setting the line up). Game shape and training plan, that's because you're a nice guy. It's out of your hands.

I said you gave a simplistic view of an U21 Coaches job. Therefore I extrapolated
Read my post again mate.

What I would want from my U21 Coach is all of the above plus:
- Consistent contact with players coaches regarding Game Shape and training plans
- Scouting players, Rival U21 Teams and tactics
- Updates of how the team is going in the BB-Forums
- Firm grasp of training tactics (elastic effects)

I'd personally much rather a candidate who would go to these lengths than one that wouldn't.

Last edited by Leeroy at 6/13/2013 3:48:36 AM

This Post:
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242993.124 in reply to 242993.122
Date: 6/13/2013 3:54:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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EZ, I'm probably going to vote for you.

I really like Mickyster and Mr Green as managers, but I like your approach.
It's no nonsense and that rubs my bits the right way.

Being the U21/NT manager isn't about baking cookies and brushing each others hair while we sit around in our underwear talking about boys.

It's about putting the best available team together and playing to our strengths and against our opponents weaknesses.
And I'm not saying that the other guys aren't capable of doing that, I just think the focus is misplaced.

I've noticed alot of "how do you get everyone involved?" lines of questioning.
Getting 70+ managers to get involved when they never do, never make a forum post but continue to be active as team managers is near impossible, you can't offer someone something intangible to make them change their habits. So this is why you have polls with only 16 votes, this is why only 30ish people voted last time around. You simply can't get people to do things they either don't want to or CBF doing.

What our U21 team needs is for the best draftees to go to the committed managers and not wasting away with deadbeat nobodies who are life members of div3/4. It's really simple.. If the best trainers got the best rookies we would dominate.
You can convince new managers to train their studs to a point, but will they maintain focus, when it gets boring to them? when that player exceeds their salary affordability? Unfortunately it's an imperfect system and we need the managers that do give a sh!t to keep training studs.

This Post:
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242993.125 in reply to 242993.124
Date: 6/13/2013 4:39:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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So you are saying the manager of the 21 NT side should not waste their time trying to get more people training players? You don't need to be a MVP+ to be a good 21 NT player. So there is a chance for lots of people to train guys for the team.

Picking the best squad and then the best lineup each game is a quick process and even if I don't win I would be disappointed if that was all the person who won was worried about doing.

From: Mr J

This Post:
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242993.126 in reply to 242993.123
Date: 6/13/2013 6:08:55 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
441441
You didn't add anything to that list (scouting is a part of setting the line up). Game shape and training plan, that's because you're a nice guy. It's out of your hands.

I said you gave a simplistic view of an U21 Coaches job. Therefore I extrapolated
Read my post again mate.

What I would want from my U21 Coach is all of the above plus:
- Consistent contact with players coaches regarding Game Shape and training plans
- Scouting players, Rival U21 Teams and tactics
- Updates of how the team is going in the BB-Forums
- Firm grasp of training tactics (elastic effects)

I'd personally much rather a candidate who would go to these lengths than one that wouldn't.


I think you are spot on, Leeroy. However, I would join both your lists and suggest that they are the roles of the U21 NT Coach. Which is what you were suggesting I think. Those of us running would be remiss to ignore your experience and comments.


On reading previous posts and how conversationsd have morphed somewhat recently, I would like to just clear up a possible misconception: that I have a somewhat utopian idea of what our community should look and function like.

When I decided to run for this position it soon occurred to me that putting aside all of the facets of the U21 NT role (all of those listed above by ezy and Leeroy combined), I wanted a foundation that made 'my' job easier as coach. I felt that having a selection of assigned 'experts' would be beneficial to help managers of players with training, general advice etc.

I also thought that having all our U21 NT needs met in one place was beneficial as it provided a clean slate, easily accessible material that the offsite forum doesn't offer anymore.

I thought that many Aussie managers would see the value of such a foundation. I also thought that a newly created Federation would/could be that foundation. Perhaps I was niave?

Over the last few days I have slightly altered my perceptions of what the community wants and what it will utilise. Let me briefly explain my new thinking:

1. Instead of individual 'experts' assigned to 18yr olds, 19yr olds etc I think a thread within the federation designated for each age group would work better where all managers can have their say about players...what they should like like...how they could be trained etc.
2. Concerning game tactics, I would put my views of our next game on the discussion thread and invite managers to discuss my intended tactics and player choices. Having a discussion about these matters has worked for us Calamari in our Fed and would be of even greater value on a larger scale.
3. I still believe that we could get more interest from managers if we created a new federation (that encompasses both U21 and NT business) that is not just informative but interesting. This could, as I suggested previously, be done through 'tongue-in-cheek' post-match reviews, by engaging pre-match writeups or through easily setup threads like a HOF to showcase former U21 talent. Of course, these 'extras' would be 'cool' but may not happen. But it is still a vision of mine that they occur. I'm not a dreamer; I am simply looking for easy and exciting addons for managers.
4. As Coach I would take full responsibility of the 18yr olds (saving them where necessary) and making contact with managers of prospects and not leaving that to an '18yr old' Mentor (an experienced manager) which I had previously considered. I would also touch base with managers regularly in regards to GS and how their maintenance of it effects their player's chance of playing and the team in general.
5. I believe that having a newly created Federation could still benefit non-supporters through weekly updates on the Aussie forum by myself as Coach. I could post about recent performances and provide a brief analysis or general comments. Having a PR guy to enhance this would be 'cool' but may not occur.


Last edited by Mr J at 6/13/2013 6:15:15 AM

From: Mr J

To: Mr J
This Post:
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242993.127 in reply to 242993.126
Date: 6/13/2013 6:14:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
441441
Sorry..continued...

6. I still believe that while a larger team to support the coach would be beneficial to do more, its more realistic to have a smaller number of people initially who can provide support. Their roles might be to help with scouting of opponents and their tactics for example. As the team evolves more positions may be created by individuals wanting to do more.

I guess I want it to be clear that while my original vision has altered, I still believe most of what I had set out is achievable and necessary. I had not intended for people to think that I was attempting to do everything as the coach but rather that as Coach, what could I have in place that will make my job easier, keep and enhance interest and ensure that this season and the next---and future teams---achieve to their potential on the court.

From: Kilrtom

To: Mr J
This Post:
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242993.128 in reply to 242993.127
Date: 6/13/2013 6:37:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Your long post is impressive. I almost read it all.

You've got my vote if you join my federation.....

(http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/fedoverview.aspx?fe...)

Seriously...Join my federation (need 4 more members for 100!) and you get a extra vote.

Otherwise Peacenroll gets it re spite

Manager of the Bahamas National Team!
This Post:
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242993.129 in reply to 242993.128
Date: 6/13/2013 6:39:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12661266
haha
so do I need to leave your federation ;)

This Post:
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242993.130 in reply to 242993.129
Date: 6/13/2013 6:44:42 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11451145
Dont blackmail me for blackmailing Mr Green!

Tell you what, if you stay and Mr Green joins, one of you will get my vote!

Manager of the Bahamas National Team!
This Post:
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242993.131 in reply to 242993.130
Date: 6/13/2013 6:47:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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I will not buy your vote. Please just vote for the person you think will do the best job. ;)

This Post:
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242993.132 in reply to 242993.131
Date: 6/13/2013 6:50:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11451145
But im not running.....oh snap!

Manager of the Bahamas National Team!
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