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I am not tanking - I am just not competing

That's pretty much the definition of tanking...

Maybe I am a treadmill team. If reaching the playoffs and playing the conference finals every season is equal to tanking, we should shut down the game immediately...

that's different than "Not competing"

Well, I am not going to start a discussion to find the most precise definition. At the end of the day, I can maximize my income (could make over 300k every week if I wanted), still reach the playoffs and ball like a boss.

This thread has now become less about the proposed new tax and more about finding a solution to tanking prevention. that's OK, since it's closely connected. But there are problems here.

First of all, we cannot even agree what the definition of tanking is. What separates tanking from rebulding? Tanking teams from teams with no real opposition? Finally, as Sentinel remarked, it is a minefield of to navigate when trying to code a tanking "detector". Its not technically hard, it's incredibly hard to decide which prerequisites a team needs to fill in order to be declared a tanker and subsequently, be punished.

One of the fundamental problems is that most teams can only be competitive 2 games per week. But what when they want to win that cup game - then they have to "tank" one league match. Even then they might get pummeled in the cup and end up with two big losses in the week. Should they be punished for that? Of course not.

If we go the salary used vs total salary route, there are again exceptions and problems. There is currently no simple, clear cut way to detect tanking. In time, we might find a mechanism to do it, but I don't think it will be perfect nor simple. Until then, salary floor seems to be the best tool to discourage it, and I'd gladly increase it if there were no examples like the ones already mentioned here, where promotees have a hard time filling the existing salary floor.

So you see, it's easy to shout "just punish tanking!" when you're not the one that actually has to implement it.

This could lead me to quitting after 30 seasons.........

blablabla, empty threats...

...how much money do you have?
...do you know how you will be taxed next season?

As soon as you can answer the second question, you can consider your future in this game.

Well it did in Hattrick. So don't see how that's empty. You got some insight big man.

1) Take a wild guess

2) No

3) Thanks for your comments

Last edited by Mod-worthy42 at 11/17/2015 11:08:26 AM

Fair question.

My plan is not to buy it. But to build towards it. I have trainees, money and patience.

But the way it works now, training and manager skill alone wont win anything.

I gave your post a basketball because I think it is a fair analysis of the problem of tanking, and I think you are acknowledging (not denying) that tanking is a problem.

One of the fundamental problems is that most teams can only be competitive 2 games per week. But what when they want to win that cup game - then they have to "tank" one league match. Even then they might get pummeled in the cup and end up with two big losses in the week. Should they be punished for that? Of course not.

The "fundamental problem" that you put your finger on is a problem in game design. If the game is designed so that a team cannot compete in three games a week, that is a game design problem you should always consider when making changes. And if the problem exists only to serve the current design of training, well...

EDIT: we have to acknowledge, that once you are training players, you are not playing to the fullest potential of your team - thus you should be punished...

No, thus training should be reformed.

We could avoid this luxury tax and get rid of the overextension tax if that attendance drop would be implemented. That would make a lot of things easier and even more realistic.

I agree. I also wonder if the Fan Survey is difficult or even impossible to reform, given what an obvious problem it is and the great (positive) effect that reforming it would have on the game. I wonder if it was added somewhere along the line as just another "bell and whistle" and no one realized what a major element of the game it could become.

If it is possible to reform, I think it should go almost to the top of Marin's to-do list.

Easy way: Increase the salary floor.

Well ... yes and no. Done just that simply, it would kill new teams.

But done only for demoting teams, well, that might be a possibility worth exploring. Maybe it can be done so that legitimate demotions are not penalized but tanking is ... if Marin can settle on a definition of tanking, which isn't so easy as he points out. For example, maybe a demoting team has a new salary floor that is somewhere between that of the division he just left and the division he now enters.

I like making the fan survey into a powerful force (and an accurate one) better. I think there are some real possibilities in that area, not just to address tanking but also in a positive way.