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I'm talking about a guy that can break that, espeically if you are using a better trainer, in 3 seasons with good secondaries he'll have maybe 20k salary. Tsunami will hit 22 probably under 20k salary, but 100TSP. Just do a scan of your player's and count the TSP. See if you can find a guy on 20k that has 70 or more. adn that is not count FT and ST, with those added in Tsunami is 110+ by the end of the season

At the start of this season, Michael Wray was:
9 - 7 - 14 - 11 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 6 - 1 - 7 (and we ignore the 5 - 10 in STA/FT) = 79, salary of 12723.
Mark Newton was:
10 - 7 - 13 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 4 -3 - 7 (ignore 3/5) = 78, salary 12210
Morgan Menard was:
8 - 8 - 13 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 2 - 7 - 6 - 5 (ignore 4/4) = 76, salary 13895

So, yeah, they're not elite U20 guys like your Tsunami is. But they're all over 80 TSP now and have estimated salaries for next year under 17k. Of course, yes, they each also have 20 or more of their skill points in inside skills, and weren't really trained in any of those yet -- and I was particular about getting 6 or 7 JR because I wasn't planning on training that much (and ended up almost never training JR and never training JS).

Tsunami popped OD 3 times in 4 weeks, no joke. You wont see that with no level 4 trainer in double position. You're lucky for 1 pop in 4 weeks.

I won't question Tsunami's data, but I was averaging an OD pop in just under 3 weeks, for five players (and I didn't set up elastic effect for them, either). Now, again, that won't get you an elite player, but I wanted players that would bring me up from where I started to a position where I could then transition to training a group of big men that would be appropriate from where I'd be at. There's no reason at all to spend big money on a top level trainer for the guys I had - and really, though I could afford better, I've only moved up to a level 5 guy in the past few weeks for the guys I'm training now.

The thing is, I'm quite happy with those guys, mostly. I wish Menard had more IS and Newton more ID, and both could use more FT, but I can get around the inside flaws easily enough and there's plenty of time later in my BB days for stamina/FT training. They're clearly good enough for where I am now - I've been playing 18 yo big men as PG in quite a few of my games for training and still quite comfortable in my current league.

We don't all want to train U21 guys, certainly not at lower levels. We don't all necessarily care how fast we can get our guys to the caps, just in how we can improve our team. Would I have loved it if my guys had higher potential? Absolutely. Newton and the Italian fellow sold earlier were guys I purchased on the third day I had my team, Menard was my first "big" purchase (at 160k range, 2 months into my career) and Wray was drafted. And they've been important players for me the entire time, at much lower salary than most guards of their OD level would be - so while they may not be optimum profit wise or elite prospects, I'm not at all going to consider them as a waste of resources to have developed. I'm not going to say anyone needs to or should or will be better off following my plan, but likewise I'm not accepting it being written off as worthless either.

Well, if you're going to pay over 26k a week for a power forward that has 7 assists vs. over 200 turnovers in all games over the past four seasons and I am not at all surprised you've got to spend that much. Less rebounding and more handling/passing and the player will cost you less and you'll have more possession by cutting out the turnovers than you do with the extra rebounds. And yet with all your salary you can't put up better defensive ratings than that?

[edit - that comes across harsher than I intended, and he's far less egregious than some. Usually, though, the guys that have the 50k+ players in IV are going to have mostly beatable teams and often have guys who have salaries that greatly outpace their contribution. A guy in my IV last season had a 70k center and couldn't make the playoffs.]

Gutiérrez is an atrocious passer but makes up for it with D and RB. He's a decent scorer with good FTs. The Colored Zebras and the Five Lokos have a good/cheap #4 starter but their #5 guys are weak. I've tried to build a team that can be competitive in D3 so I can stick around there a while. I'll need to swap out Cabeleira and Torres next season.

D and RB are important, definitely. I actually am not a follower of what I preach here because my guards almost all have crappy RB. But secondary skills are definitely salary efficient and can often help you go down a level or two in primary skills.

Of course, again I compromised some there with my recent purchases. My original goal was that my big men needed at least average passing, handling and OD. Big men with passing in particular tend to help with inside scoring - because they're usually matched up against low OD guys and so passes from big man to another big man often lead to uncontested shots, and that requires a lot less IS to convert. But once you get to the 20k range, those guys become more and more rare - I settled for just having handling and passing and just using defensive matchups to avoid bigs that have some outside shooting.

Cool. I have 11 pops but 2 were in FT because he was injured 2 weeks (3 Fridays).

D and RB are important, definitely. I actually am not a follower of what I preach here because my guards almost all have crappy RB. But secondary skills are definitely salary efficient and can often help you go down a level or two in primary skills.

Of course, again I compromised some there with my recent purchases. My original goal was that my big men needed at least average passing, handling and OD. Big men with passing in particular tend to help with inside scoring - because they're usually matched up against low OD guys and so passes from big man to another big man often lead to uncontested shots, and that requires a lot less IS to convert. But once you get to the 20k range, those guys become more and more rare - I settled for just having handling and passing and just using defensive matchups to avoid bigs that have some outside shooting.

I have started emphasizing passing and free throws in my purchases recently. For PF and C, I don't look for OD but it is nice if someone has it.

Sounds good. It seems so much harder to find all of those in higher level big men, which was why I'm looking at training my own instead. Anyhow, good luck with the playoffs.

The data I have says that if you are training 5 guys together with a level 4 trainer it's basically impossible you are averaging a pop every 3 weeks. MAYBE at 18 if they are all like 5'10'' and have good elastics.... You've listed your best 3, which makes me think you were wprobably single po. and probably level 5 plus trainer on those guys.

Keep in mind that two of the guys (well, three if you count the recently-sold Tuozzi) reached those skills at the end of the season they were 21, while Wray was 20. Newton and Tuozzi were purchased 2/3 of the way through their 18 year old season. Wray was drafted the following season at 18, Menard purchased at 19 yo a month or so later (so he could well have been single-trained previously, but at19 yo + 4 weeks, he was 6-6-7-7-7-5-6 / 1-6-6-5. I had a couple of very low potential guys that got trained slightly the first season, and then a 1k star I picked up after the draft with Wray that got flipped at the end of the year. The following season I drafted a high potential guy and eventually sold him, as I wasn't going to be able to afford a high level trainer in my plan.

I switched over to 1 position (at least for pressure) earlier than I remember too. Of course, other than the allstar SF/SG, they were mostly only being trained every other week - I wanted Namo to try to at least get close to the OD level of the other guys, so I made sure to get him full training and stretch out the other guys.

So, suffice it to say, if you were thinking these guys were 20 and had those skills, I apologize for the lack of clarity. I'm impressed you can read through the wall of text in the first place. ;)

I didn't bother looking up those trainees on your roster page. If those were higher pot. and U20 then those aren't bad at all actually. for star though with OD around that point you are in cap territory. I counted 3~10 more pops for the first guy before he caps. Maybe if you just do ID/IS then he'll be okay, but I think your whole premise was not crosstraining, obviously with 1 RB he is a liability to play at C to say the least!!! This is another factor in the expense of training and why it's hard to make 5 balanced trainees at a time.

May even be less than that - if I were to give them a passing pop, Menard could cap if he was bare minimum star level, and Newton and Wray would be awful close. I had second thoughts about training them much on inside skills when I got my big men trainees - unlike the star guys at guard, I don't want to waste too many weeks with them on two position training skills that can be single position trained. While playing the guys out of position wouldn't be a problem with defensive switches, I decided instead I'll just do 1v1 for forwards and hope for IS pops there, and just accept that I'm not going to improve their ID further. The big guys need more 1v1 to help their guard skills anyhow.