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ok let me continue from what I have said before.

bah this is my second attempt since BB timed out...

I have had a look and let me give you my opinion

These are our games and I am sure everyone agrees that the top spot is clearly for Germany... Let me give you my thoughts on game by game basis and show you the amount of active members in these countries. Off course this opinion is based on how countries performed in the past, obviously we dont know what their new crop off players would look like.

Germany 1259 active members world ranking 9
Finland 744 active members world ranking 26
Sweden 347 active members world ranking 29
Netherlands 371 active members world ranking 7
Andorra 26 active members world ranking 76
Azarbajzan 22 active members world ranking 82
Bosnia 546 active members world ranking 48
England 738 active members world ranking 49

9/21/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Deutschland U21 we dont stand a chance

9/28/2009 6:30:00 PM Suomi U21 -- England U21 if we get very lucky, our tactics right and they get theirs wrong we stand a small chance due to home court advantage, but only a very small chance.

10/5/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Sverige U21 they play the 2 easiest teams first and have home court advantage, no chance at all

10/12/2009 6:30:00 PM Nederland U21 -- England U21 ranked 7 in the world, no chance at all.

10/19/2009 6:30:00 PM Andorra U21 -- England U21 we will win

10/26/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Azərbaycan U21 we will win

11/2/2009 6:30:00 PM England U21 -- Bosna i Hercegovina U21 i think we stand no chance, i know world ranking wise we are equal, but basketball is a main sport in bosnia and their ranking is so low because for whatever reason they had a few walk overs in season 9 which I am sure would have affected their world rankings. Also they have home court advantage.

I will continue with this thread when I get home... I am currently at work.

As I said a few times before, I would see the U21 project more as a 4 year plan and not a 2 year one. So I do hope the english community would support me and work with me to achieve my goal to get the U21 qualified atleast once to the 2nd round.

Looking at the group we got, we got screwed and I dont think we will end in the top 4. So what to do? I would like to work with a squad off about 12-15 players, since this seems to be the standard that succesfull countries adopt, however I also would add some 18 or 19 year old future candidates, to give the coaches that own these players more the feeling that these players do make part off the future off the U21 team and perhaps this way involve them more so they will train them too. As I mentioned before, I would ask a coach to train these players in a certain way, however I wouldnt ask them to train them for the benefit off the U21 only. These teams have decent players, else they wouldnt be selected for the U21 team and I do hope the players can be usefull for their own team and the U21 team.

I would even consider playing these additional players on a regular basis. Yes I realise a risky and debatable subject, so in case I get chosen, I hope the english community will join in with such a debate. Let me explain what i mean by this, I had myself an U21 chilean player the last 2 season and although he did wasnt a starter, he did pop his experience this season as to where my other ace trainees bought at the same time didnt. Perhaps a coincidence, but i doubt it. I dont know how much experience matters, but I do think it matters. Imagine we dont qualify and end up in a consolidation group, why not try and raise the experience for players that most likely will make it in the next U21 instead off playing the current U21 players.

However these are just ideas, ideas I would like to debate with the english community, I can have as many ideas as I want, but running the U21 and National team is team work for the whole community and not a 1 man show...

As you said, this is a long term game, so losing 4 years to build a good team is not wasted time

exactly, that is why I think it would be a good thing to get the support for 4 years and not just 2...

Look, if people don't want to train players, that's because they don't know a lot about the game.

what do you mean by this? Train in what way? I am sure every trainer trains their players in one way or the other. So what do you mean by what I quoted??

I would ask a coach to train these players in a certain way, however I wouldnt ask them to train them for the benefit off the U21 only. These teams have decent players, else they wouldnt be selected for the U21 team and I do hope the players can be usefull for their own team and the U21 team.

Now, I'd really like to hear what the other managers have to say about this. That's because we have been saying this since the begining.




For the rest of the post, I would consider it a nice way to atract people to train their playersbut the problem is, the lower we get on the group, the lower we get on the rankings. So even if, in 4 years, we had excelent players, our group would be even more difficult because of our ranking. So we would loose another two years to climb up in the ranking, so that we could stand a chance against the other teams, and in the meanwhile, the generation players created by your method would already turned to 22+ years. It's is just my oppinion about your method. As I said, it's a good method to bring more players to the team, but I don't think it would work very well

If we were saying names without contacting them, do you think we would only chose 1? If you want to be sure, send him a bb-mail asking that. If he is not here, is because he is not having time. We had to change some things in scouting because he was not able to handle everything.

If he doesn't have time to post in this thread, what should I believe about the time he'll be able to give to actually scouting properly to be able to help with lineups, tactics, etc. All of which takes much more time than keeping up with this thread would require. Again that leaves me to believe you're asking us to rely primarily on 2 players who, although you may have learned a lot, don't have the experience I feel the position requires.

About experience, just because here in England a lot of people doens't has interest for the game, and only comes here to make the lineup, it doesn't mean that we are the same as them.

What leads you to say that? Yes, again I look at that as a negative comment on the English community you're trying to win over.

And, even if we were unexperienced, we would allways have the help of jotapeq. He's not only applying for NT coach because he lacks of time for it. So I think experience is not a problem

Again, I have yet to see any commitment from him at all. We have a statement from you that he'll help, but obviously he doesn't have the time to help get your team elected. So again the experience issue IS an issue.

In two years (actually 2 years and a half), I learnt what many people took 4 or more seasons to learn.

I assume you mean seasons as you haven't had your team for 2.5 years. Ok, I'll give you the fact you may be a fast learner. But there are a LOT of users around who have already played much longer than the 4 seasons of knowledge you claim to hold. Most of the other NT managers you'll be competing against, as an example. And they've largely got squads of players that have similar skill levels to U-21 players.

About the scrimmage, I just gave an example. For a player who follows his NT for over two years, and has access to Nt players' skills, the difference is between making the tactics for a team or a NT are not that big.

I agree. The tactics for a high skilled team and an NT team are similar. However you haven't had the opportunity to explore and test the tactics with a squad of that caliber. Seeing the stats and actually having the opportunity to set a lineup and test how they'd do with say.. a motion or princeton offense.. are very different things. You've not had the experience you need to be able to begin to get an impression of what a 2 level difference in form on a 40k salaried non mono-skilled player feels like or can do to your ratings. What qualifies you to be able to scout a team, select a tactic, and set the appropriate lineup for that tactic effectively? My main point is that nobody from your team who has posted here actually has that knowledge and experience. The one player you refer to that may have it didn't even have the time to introduce himself to the community.

Look, if people don't want to train players, that's because they don't know a lot about the game.

what do you mean by this? Train in what way? I am sure every trainer trains their players in one way or the other. So what do you mean by what I quoted??

What I mean is that a lot of the new guys don't give the attention that training deserves. All of them train of course, but not in the best way. What I'm trying to say is that if we show them our way of training, giving them examples of sucessful teams and/our players created by that method, many of them will follow us.

exactly what i thought you ment with

Look, if people don't want to train players, that's because they don't know a lot about the game.

. I am sorry, but I disagree with your statement and find it kind patronizing...

What I'm trying to say is that if we show them our way of training, giving them examples of sucessful teams and/our players created by that method, many of them will follow us.

I have been involved in many (some very heated debates) with coaches participating from many different leagues, about how to train the best players and what the best traing methods are. And players never agreed. So what makes you believe that your training method is the one and only and the best??

I would never say something like this, because there in my opinion are too many different training options available and I would have an open discussion with the coaches and suggest not what I think is the best training method that I believe exsists, but I would suggest them to train their players in such a way that the players is good for their own team and the U21 team... and than it is waiting whether they agree with me or not...

1st: If jotapeq acepted our invite is because he is capable of the job. Don't say that he only acepted because he wanted to be know for having a NT or because he doenst know what it takes to be part of a NT because he is experienced enough to know it. I've already said that we made an effort to manage our part of the scouting, and part of his. So, he wiil not take part in the starting scouting, but in helping players training. We did this, so that he could also help us in the tactics.


2nd It wasn't me who started saying that english comunity was inactive and disinterested

3rd If I know the players who play, and the ratings that are made,what's missing me.( and no I'm not talking about my team)

4th. To be a scout, you don't need to be a great manager, but a great trainer. I consider myself a good center trainer, as I created a good player, and know what it takes to have a good center


5th I don't know why do you only talk about the "bad things" about our team. Maybe you didn't want to talk about the good ones



PS: You are talking about my team, but Astragoth hasn't one

And that's what I'm saying. What I meant was that I wanted them to know that this method actually works. And it would also be great to the NT

For the record, Hungary is hosting the U21 Euros, so only they will have home court.

All other games will be neutral court.

If jotapeq acepted our invite is because he is capable of the job. Don't say that he only acepted because he wanted to be know for having a NT or because he doenst know what it takes to be part of a NT because he is experienced enough to know it.

Where did I say anything about jotapeq wanting to be known for anything? The ONLY thing I've said about jotapeq is that he doesn't seem to have the time to put into it, and you've stated he doesn't have time as well.

I've already said that we made an effort to manage our part of the scouting, and part of his. So, he wiil not take part in the starting scouting, but in helping players training.

If you don't scout the teams, then you can't set the tactics properly. It's that simple. My issue is that I don't think the other 2 members of your team have the experience to do the job, yet you seem to be saying thats your intent. It's not the scouting of players for training that is a concern (elboss already has tools in place to do this in an automated fashion). It's scouting the opposing teams, being able to get a feel for what they'll do against you, choosing a tactic to counter it, setting a lineup to play that tactic as effectively as possible, and having the maturity to stand up to the English community when it doesn't work. If your experienced manager doesn't have the time to scout the opposition, then he won't be able to do any of this effectively.

2nd It wasn't me who started saying that english comunity was inactive and disinterested

You certainly have repeated it though.

3rd If I know the players who play, and the ratings that are made,what's missing me.( and no I'm not talking about my team)

See my previous posts, and read the above statements. There is more to setting lineups and choosing tactics than knowing skills. Without having had personal experience with players putting up the ratings an NT would, you'll be less effective choosing tactics.

4th. To be a scout, you don't need to be a great manager, but a great trainer. I consider myself a good center trainer, as I created a good player, and know what it takes to have a good center

From your team, you've created one decent player with potential to be good. You haven't created a great player, so I cannot say if you're a great trainer.

5th I don't know why do you only talk about the "bad things" about our team. Maybe you didn't want to talk about the good ones

I talk about the "bad things" about your club team because it illustrates my concerns. You haven't played long enough to have any "good things" happen for me to talk about yet.

PS: You are talking about my team, but Astragoth hasn't one

Astragoth hasn't one what? A team? Look at his roster, compare it to yours. Look at his team ratings, compare it to yours. I haven't looked that deeply, but I would guess he's got scrimmages with higher ratings than your team put up in the finals. So yes, I do feel he has more experience with players of U-21 NT caliber than you do, hence my comments. If I mis-understood your P.S. point, please re-state it.