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BB USA > U21 National Team Debate Thread

U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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252150.127 in reply to 252150.124
Date: 12/30/2013 1:03:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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A few questions for y'all,

1) This one's mainly for accountability sake but if you do not win the election, how will you continue to be involved with the U21 team?

2) Some of the candidates have mentioned getting more individuals involved in the USA offsite as a priority goal as manager, so do you think that's a priority and if so, how do you plan to do that?

3) Everyone has discussed diversifying the pipeline and the players developed. It's a great thing that everyone wants to do though i'm sure that's always been the case with past managers too so what would you implement that is different than what's already being done to actually make that happen?

4) This is to mainly everyone except E.B.W. as I don't believe this applies to him. I know that many of you have extensive experience on the offsite and assisting with the national teams, which is great, but am simply curious as to why you haven't been engaged with the U21 squad this past season until this election time came? Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

This Post:
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252150.128 in reply to 252150.127
Date: 12/30/2013 1:42:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
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1) Regardless of whether I win the election or not I will still be on the offsite every week helping with game planning. This is both because I have Edju Palmer, who will be on the team, but also because I like our core planning group on there and love the discussions that take place.

2) Once the elections are over and I get some time on my hands, I plan on grabbing a few other people and posting offsite information again in all the league forums like we did awhile back. I this could easily attract at least an additional 10-15 people to the offsite.

3) The key is to get closer connected to the managers who are training them and keep in touch with them every week or two just to keep up with their planning and seeing what is going on. I feel like many times people train just whatever they want even if it is not beneficial to the U21 NT. this could probably be easily prevented by simply getting a closer relationship with the managers of the future players on the U21 NT. I plan on bbmailing a lot of them here and there so I can give advice and see if they would be more willing to create different players. If the U21 NT coach has a good relationship with the managers, the managers will want to help out the U21 NT more I believe.

4) it appears I am exempt from this question.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 12/30/2013 1:43:04 AM

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
From: Isaiah

To: RamQ
This Post:
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252150.129 in reply to 252150.124
Date: 12/30/2013 7:55:13 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Smallfries II
This would be a tough decision based on the fact that we have two equal competitors with different strengths an weaknesses. If I had to choose though, it would have to be for Oriolekid. Reason being is that, while E.B.W is a great candidate and would do a great job, Oriolekid is a lot like myself in the fact that he has always run and came up just short. Manat elections he and I have run great campaigns only to get 2nd behind someone with more expierence. Just like E.B.W., I contributed a lot to season 18 for the U21 and was always discussing things in the game threads. I came out of that with expectations to have the edge on others, only to lose the election. I have also ran for U21 other times, only to be beat by managers who have been around longer. So while E.B.W would still be a great pick, I don't feel right picking him over Oriolekid.

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252150.130 in reply to 252150.127
Date: 12/30/2013 8:15:58 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
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1. I have lost more elections than I can count. I'm not going anywhere because I LOVE this game.

2. It's not a priority per se, since it's one of those things that will always be important, no matter how many new people you get to signup, so labeling it a priority is misleading, but it's important. it is mutually beneficial to all parties involved. If elected I'll post in every league forum(well d1-4 at least) telling them about the offsite and list some of those benefits. You can't force people to join, no matter how insanely talented their 18 yo is. And those managers would be getting a PM from me anyway. That's really all you can do.

3. This is a priority. My number 1 priority in fact. I will utilize my scouts heavily and after most of the 18 yos with the potential fir the u21 are discovered I will personally mentor those that I identify as candidates for a specialty build. These won't always be our top prospects upon first glance, and are often overlooked, but they are critically important.
That has never been done before.

4. It's just not practical to expect someone to be as active as E.B.W. has been the last 2 seasons for 10+ seasons. Not even some past managers are as active now as they once were. There was an election many seasons ago(18?) where I lost when I feel I was the most active candidate, but Magiker was the better manager. By far. Big difference between best candidate and best manager.

This Post:
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252150.131 in reply to 252150.128
Date: 12/30/2013 12:37:51 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4141
3) The key is to get closer connected to the managers who are training them and keep in touch with them every week or two just to keep up with their planning and seeing what is going on. I feel like many times people train just whatever they want even if it is not beneficial to the U21 NT. this could probably be easily prevented by simply getting a closer relationship with the managers of the future players on the U21 NT. I plan on bbmailing a lot of them here and there so I can give advice and see if they would be more willing to create different players. If the U21 NT coach has a good relationship with the managers, the managers will want to help out the U21 NT more I believe.


Follow-up questions,

1) How will you, if elected, as the U21 NT coach manage to do scouting, researching opponents and game planning along with handling so much correspondence with the managers of the 18, 19, 20 and 21 year olds who have a potential for U21?

2) How will you begin to identify which players you should even contact to be "created differently" or is that dependent on managers?

This Post:
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252150.132 in reply to 252150.130
Date: 12/30/2013 12:38:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
504504
Alright I got one more question for y'all. Don't thank me for asking it or anything because that's stupid, I shouldn't get thanked just because I asked a question.

There is no denying that the USA offsite is hemorrhaging users, as is BB in general. The offsite has lost a lot of important players, even former managers. Jfarb and rhyminsimon (among others) are gone and Rambo, Wozz, and Jason all have one post or less on the offsite since this summer. How are you going to deal with a shrinking involvement in the national team, especially with members that were greatly involved in the past?

This Post:
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252150.133 in reply to 252150.127
Date: 12/30/2013 12:52:24 PM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
1. I will be helping with the scouting of guards, as it is set up right now for me to do. I also plan to help with gameplanning more now that we have the new GDP system because the U21 manager will need opinions now more than ever before.

2. Getting more members is always a priority but is something than can be handled by being successful and generating a fun atmosphere. I've mentioned it before, and I believe that by opening the doors up to more possibilities, we will see more managers have interest in what is going on.

3. I wouldn't say it's something that other managers wanted to do, or even tried to do. I know I got lots of backlash in past elections when I wanted to diversify the pipeline. I do plan to change up the scouting a little bit on the 18 and 19yos. It's quite scary because Oriolekid and myself have similar ways of doing things, but I too plan to identify different players that I will personally advise with training to make sure things begin to go in the right direction. Then, as I walk the community through what I am doing, everyone will get a better understanding of what I am lookin for and they will be able to help with the 18 an 19yos in the future. While I am working with the 18 and 19yos though, I will be dividing the 20 and 21yos amongst the scouts to handle for these next two seasons because I am confident in all of their abilities to handle them since they have to this point.

4. This has happened several times throughout U21 history and should be looked at as badly as what it is. Personal onligations come before BB but shouldn't justify who is worthy of being the manager. I had a busy last few months between graduating college, findin a job, and planning a wedding. I didn't want the added job of worrying about 18 and 19yos to scout. I have sice graduated and found a job, as well as have the whole weddin planned out so many of my "stresses" are gone. If I didn't think I could do a good job as the U21manager then I wouldn't run. Before I ran durin elections because I knew I would get second, but not this time. I'm running with all intensive purposes of being the U21 manager and helping the NT continue to grow. Don't pick a manager sololy on what they did last season but the overall picture of what they have done and can do for the NT.

This Post:
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252150.134 in reply to 252150.130
Date: 12/30/2013 1:01:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4141
Follow-up questions,

1. I have lost more elections than I can count. I'm not going anywhere because I LOVE this game.


1. Glad you're not going anywhere, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question as to how, or if, you'll be involved in the U21 NT should you not win the election so basically, do you plan to assist with the U21 team should you lose the election?

3. This is a priority. My number 1 priority in fact. I will utilize my scouts heavily and after most of the 18 yos with the potential fir the u21 are discovered I will personally mentor those that I identify as candidates for a specialty build. These won't always be our top prospects upon first glance, and are often overlooked, but they are critically important.
That has never been done before.


2. Is this something that you will do only with 18 year old managers or do you believe that some 19 year old and 20 year old players still have the chance to be transitioned in this way too?

3. I think that leaning on the scouts is a great way to figure things out, but how do you do the identifying of these "candidates for a specialty build", is there a specific criteria you have in mind?

4. It's just not practical to expect someone to be as active as E.B.W. has been the last 2 seasons for 10+ seasons. Not even some past managers are as active now as they once were. There was an election many seasons ago(18?) where I lost when I feel I was the most active candidate, but Magiker was the better manager. By far. Big difference between best candidate and best manager.


Not a question but a statement. I agree, scouting and what not surely must take up a lot of time and work so I wouldn't expect anyone to be so thoroughly involved forever but I was just curious as to what happened, particularly this time around. I think it's a fair question because it was pointed out by fewmit that you didn't necessarily engage in any game planning or scouting during his tenure and the last time you did so was season 19 so while it's not necessary for the last 2 seasons, being out of it completely for 6 can't be ideal either. As the U21 is an ever revolving door of players, familiarity is definitely of value.

If I did have a question from your statement it would be, is there that big a difference, in this election, between the one those consider the best candidate and the one those consider the best manager? Just something to think about.

This Post:
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252150.135 in reply to 252150.133
Date: 12/30/2013 1:51:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4141
3. I wouldn't say it's something that other managers wanted to do, or even tried to do. I know I got lots of backlash in past elections when I wanted to diversify the pipeline. I do plan to change up the scouting a little bit on the 18 and 19yos. It's quite scary because Oriolekid and myself have similar ways of doing things, but I too plan to identify different players that I will personally advise with training to make sure things begin to go in the right direction. Then, as I walk the community through what I am doing, everyone will get a better understanding of what I am lookin for and they will be able to help with the 18 an 19yos in the future. While I am working with the 18 and 19yos though, I will be dividing the 20 and 21yos amongst the scouts to handle for these next two seasons because I am confident in all of their abilities to handle them since they have to this point.


Follow-up question,

1. That sounds like a great plan to me so, as we can't have every type of player we'd want, are there certain builds that you'd be focused on developing and hoping to see in the future?

4. This has happened several times throughout U21 history and should be looked at as badly as what it is. Personal onligations come before BB but shouldn't justify who is worthy of being the manager. I had a busy last few months between graduating college, findin a job, and planning a wedding. I didn't want the added job of worrying about 18 and 19yos to scout. I have sice graduated and found a job, as well as have the whole weddin planned out so many of my "stresses" are gone. If I didn't think I could do a good job as the U21manager then I wouldn't run. Before I ran durin elections because I knew I would get second, but not this time. I'm running with all intensive purposes of being the U21 manager and helping the NT continue to grow. Don't pick a manager sololy on what they did last season but the overall picture of what they have done and can do for the NT.


Just another statement, while I absolutely agree that personal obligations come before BB, it's interesting to hear that you ran for NT manager last season when it appears you definitely wouldn't have been the right choice, due to the timing of it. We shouldn't pick a manager based on one season, but that also doesn't negate contributions in that one season and I still believe U21 is definitely a much different beast, due to the turnover of players and new manager involvement, compared to the NT.

Thanks all of you for your answers. May the best man win.

This Post:
11
252150.136 in reply to 252150.134
Date: 12/30/2013 2:30:10 PM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
Since I am currently at work( I don't work Mondays but I'm picking up a shift for a friend so don't worry) and have a terrible phone, it would take me an hour to type what I want to say, so I'll answer your questions later. I will answer your lat question though.

There is not a huge difference between E.B.W. and I. We've both rode our American U21 players to success, and are infactuated with the U21 and offsite. Difference is he's going through this insatiable thirst for all these NT things now, while I did it 10 seasons ago. And it's because that I see so much of me in him that I can say he isn't the best manager. You always are learning with this game. You learn from your success, you learn from your league, and most importantly you learn from your failures. I just feel I've gone through more of that, and have thus become a better manager than EBW. He's the hot candidate, and I feel he could do a great job as manager, but I feel I'd be the better choice. If he doesn't win this election there is not a doubt in my mind he will eventually be the u21 manager. And I would vote for him and tell others why they should vote for him too.

This Post:
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252150.137 in reply to 252150.130
Date: 12/30/2013 3:34:40 PM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Hey Oriolekid, as a side note, we are currently tied with three 2nd place finishes a piece ;). And I have two 3rd place finishes as well haha.

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