BuzzerBeater Forums

For discussion re secondaries;

http://www.buzzerbeater.com/player/34619214/overview.aspx

I this is a pretty good example of required starting skills apart from low passing but easily u21 SF, not enough potential for NT but if you started from here...

My player first u21 player with all star potential ended like this at 22,

Jump Shot: tremendous Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: prolific Handling: marvelous
Driving: prodigious Passing: mediocre
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: proficient
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: average
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: average

from here if he had HofF pot or MVP I could have banged a season of each inside skills for a great PF/C, I don't get to see NT stats but I assume a player like that would be useful......

I'm not training him so he is wasted so thought he would be a good guy to help spark debate!

Any of you newer trainers, what do you think of him? Veteran guys if he was a MVP/HofF would he be a good prospect? How would you approach training him? Like I suggest or different approach? Sure the community would be interested in opinions...

sorry. i cant see the guy you linked, end up like this at 22. I have the feeling, this is what you are trying to say right? Not saying you are wrong or trying to argue, I am not great in understanding any off the game mechanics and it just feels hard to believe that this is possible for a guy with the starting skills you posted.

Jump Shot: tremendous Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: prolific Handling: marvelous
Driving: prodigious Passing: mediocre
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: proficient
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: average
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: average

also, lower than superstar potential, even i feel, is too low a potential to train. I wouldnt mind training future NT players, but training for the U21, using low potential players, I think for a nation as small as england, is unachievable, I certainly wouldnt wamt to train a star or all star player for 4 seasons knowing after that I would need to sell him because he is not the kind off player long term I need for my team. I would prefer to focus on players that can stay in my team...

Hey,

The guy I posted has similar starting stats to the guy above, because his drive, handle and shot are his low stats he can have quick high TSP as his secondaries are already strong. These 3 skills train very fast as 1 training pops all 3 skills.....also I believe this type of training creates good elastic effect for other skills.

I totally agree that players who are committed for the long term wouldn't want to train all stars as they cap at above and you would want him to be the franchise long term. He is capped at the stats above so made/would make the u21 team but wouldn't be good enough for NT but with a higher potential player you could follow this training then add inside skills at 21/22.

BUT for newer managers who need to learn how to train and have a smaller budget having 3 guys like this with $20000 salary when finished and then looking for higher potential once they have built arena and practiced training is a great plan. It's what I've done.

Wouldn't 3 players like above help most D2/3 teams?

I can assure you the above player is real AND achievable if you follow a simple training plan with the RIGHT trainee.



JB

I think having 3 off these players might help you survive in div II. But that's is.

Now the community is talking about out off position training future NT players, I would like to ask our EBBL coaches, who are the pilars off this community, how many off you are training players out off position, to give them high secondaries and so that they can play for the NT??

Last edited by Astragoth at 12/6/2014 5:45:50 AM

Seems a good of example of where it would be great for players to be at at 22 but realistically most trainees dont have such good secondaries or a high enough tsp at 18 to be that good by that age..


You are right about only focussing on players that will be good enough in the long run but some players might lack secondaries at NT because of the limited number of players, can't be more than 15-20 MVP+ draftees each season? Many of which dont end up getting trained or trained properly, so surely a well trained over 8 seasons guy with average secondaries is better than nowt?

That is what I am asking myself as well. What is realistic and what isn't. Alot off people giving their opinion don't train or better said don't train out of position. Are their ideas realistic enough?

Got a bit of a busy weekend, so I don't have time to respond to everyone's thoughts. However, there's a lot here that's been very interesting to read. And some mail I've received with other thoughts.

One thing I want to comment on though, since it seems to relate mostly to me. I'm deliberately vague about minimum standards for NT players when I'm asked. I'm not sure I agree with the principal, though I'm not against people making clear what they think the minimum standard is.

When I've been asked what I want from a young player, my first thought is "more than I already have." Or indeed, as much as I already have. Then I'm getting into the area of telling people what the current squad's skills are. Something which to me, involves a slight grey area of revealing skills of players that some people might want to be private.

I've tried to be slightly more clear on the NT page, though I do realise I talk mostly about defence. I think anyone who takes a glance at my team, or has seen me in chat, knows I'm defensively minded.

One other reason I don't really like to involve myself in setting standards so much, is because I tend to be slightly out of step with most people's thoughts. I want things that other people don't seem to want so much of. I'm very mindful of the fact that, unlike with my own team, England isn't mine to shape as I want. I'm a custodian if you like, so I very much think I'm here to take what I'm given.

ENGLAND FINALLY WIN A CLOSE ONE
Peace, or at least quiet has broken out. I don't mean in Israel, host of the Euros this season. I'm talking about the forums. Perhaps the weekend saw a 48 hour truce.
Meanwhile, the England squad put a fractious week back home behind them as they took on Estonia, hoping to win, and have results go our way, to enable us to finish with a winning season, and finish 3rd in the group.
In fact, this is what happened. We won a thriller that was decided very late (aren't all games?) and Armenia lost to Romania.
This is an improvement on two seasons ago, but, a failure that is slightly better than another failure is still a failure.
Today's game is going to prove fairly easy to sum up. It was close at the beginning, it was close at half time, and remained close all the way to the end.
Once we got a slight lead about half way through the 4th, we did look the stronger. Our D stiffened, stopping Estonia from drawing level, and offensively we did just enough to close out the game.
For possibly the first time Barker top scored, and also led in assists. Thanks to zander, his former coach for boosting his PA initially and to Vecx for finishing it off. MacAusland had 8 rebounds in a fairly paltry team total of 39.

Sadly, this is the end of our NT season. Its also probably the end of a few England careers. Disappointingly for some, not for me. I have a season to go. Terrell Hongs and Alan Sharpling are 34 now, and in the former's case his England days are certainly over. Sharpling has a slim chance, but thats all it is. Sad to say that about an English legend but age wearies even the biggest hero. Of the 33yos, Elopolis and Harris are on the edge. Armada at SF has possibly the best chance to stay on the team. Gascoigne is the only 32yo, and he is certain to be on next season's squad.

I'm not going to add anything for now, about my thoughts on the future of England. (And they are just my thoughts, I'm only one man, I can't decide how we proceed as a community.) Today is about winning against Estonia. We haven't won for a few weeks now, so I'm just going to savour the relief for a while.

Nice win gully and obviously next season is a big one- definitely a good thing to have a stable manager at this point.

Good job. Poland and Portugal also did not qualify, so you're in good company. In addition to that, Italy lucked out once again, but they should have been out too. Cech Reupublic eliminated Poland with R&G and nearly had marvelous outside shooting (even so they still bricked 2/3 of their three-pointers).

Also to clarify what I mean regarding unconventional builds I just stumbled on this guy while checking the German roster:
Heinrich Jägermeister (22633735)
13/10/11 14/14/12 9/17/17/17 5/9 (134TSP 6'10'')

If you think the guy will suck offensively: Germany beat Turkey finishing tied for second (well Italy was second, Turkey third and Germany fourth) in this game (30613). The guy above with 9 IS played 31 minutes and finished with 27 points on 10-11 shooting.

Now, to achieve that build you need at least an MVP potential, but you could potentially train a Superstar potential to something like 10/9/11 14/14/12 6/17/17/17 if the initial skills were right. To create a good big man from subpar potential you will need to punt one skill (in this case IS). The same goes for guards. For PGs especially a lot of people punt JS and JR and push IS. Something like this should be achievable with a superstar, but I don't know how desirable it would be for others:
11/11/19 17/17/14 15/9/3/8 (if you have 1 or 2 rebounding you could technically even push OD to 20)

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/8/2014 3:18:24 PM