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Clutch scorers

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This Post:
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211641.13 in reply to 211641.12
Date: 3/1/2012 10:38:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
Let's not discuss about BBs. It is not the place to do it...
I suggest to ask another BB the same Q, when the one asked gives an answer that is not satisfying...

This Post:
00
211641.14 in reply to 211641.13
Date: 3/1/2012 10:48:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
probadly the one gm, answering just collect the answer or at least let their colleges read over it.

but as a programmer, your suggested change didn't sound that easy. Even when i had to fantasy, over the possible engine code.

This Post:
00
211641.15 in reply to 211641.14
Date: 3/1/2012 11:03:56 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
probadly the one gm, answering just collect the answer or at least let their colleges read over it.

but as a programmer, your suggested change didn't sound that easy. Even when i had to fantasy, over the possible engine code.
As a programmer... It is easy.

This Post:
00
211641.16 in reply to 211641.15
Date: 3/1/2012 11:16:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
if it should make sense, not. Since you are looking at a complex system, with most likely different option maybe it is easy if you say:

if ( clutchscorer) {take every shoot including those from halfcourt, with a double team}
else {don't shoot}

you need to consider so many parameter like shot clock, passing oppurtunities, own oppurtunity ... And so much more, who are affecting each other and aren't just some if clauses. I doubt that the current ge just calculates prohability to shoot:
PG:20%(*shot prohability formula) SG: 20% ... where you could raise just the prohabilty of sg shooting to 50 and the rest to 12,5, and then make a random decision. that would be easy, but everything said and ge behaviour lead me to another view of the engine.8and even then you have to adjust the prohability formula to a reasonable value, since when you force a shot it get much worse then when you play for the best one).

This Post:
00
211641.17 in reply to 211641.11
Date: 3/1/2012 11:19:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
587587
In this case - taking in consideration the requested shooter preferred by the user is not that hard to add.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. The only "preferred player" input to the game engine that we currently know of are the new (well, newest) offensive and defensive tactics. It seems to me all aspects of the suggestion would thus require new code.
I don't see the connection.

Exactly. That was pretty much my point really. Most of the code that is needed for this feature is new. Thus, no fact suggests the addition is somehow easier than any other GE modification.

On the other hand, it seems clear that making this feature a potential improvement to the GE requires developing a well-balanced decision structure. What we know of the GE is that the players try to execute each play in an optimal way (considering the components that are seen by the players). A suggestion of setting up a certain player for every clutch moment is thus suboptimal by default. A meaningful feature is one where the manager thinks he knows who should be the clutch scorer, and the players on the court are able to make a good decision to set that guy up (they are already trying to find the best possible scoring opportunity). This is not as trivial as it may first appear.

Last edited by GM-WallyOop at 3/1/2012 11:20:09 AM

This Post:
11
211641.18 in reply to 211641.17
Date: 3/1/2012 2:03:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1010
I do not like this suggestion. Every possession my offense is supposed to go down the court and find the best shot available against the defense. If my best shooter doesnt get the shot, that means a better shot was available or the defense did not allow him to get the ball. Making him take the shot despite that results in either a terrible shot or a TO.

What would be interesting is a clutch tactic. For instance, down by 7 with two to go--->switch to RnG
or something along those lines would be interesting

This Post:
00
211641.19 in reply to 211641.16
Date: 3/6/2012 3:09:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
if it should make sense, not. Since you are looking at a complex system, with most likely different option maybe it is easy if you say:

if ( clutchscorer) {take every shoot including those from halfcourt, with a double team}
else {don't shoot}

you need to consider so many parameter like shot clock, passing oppurtunities, own oppurtunity ... And so much more, who are affecting each other and aren't just some if clauses. I doubt that the current ge just calculates prohability to shoot:
PG:20%(*shot prohability formula) SG: 20% ... where you could raise just the prohabilty of sg shooting to 50 and the rest to 12,5, and then make a random decision. that would be easy, but everything said and ge behaviour lead me to another view of the engine.8and even then you have to adjust the prohability formula to a reasonable value, since when you force a shot it get much worse then when you play for the best one).

Currently the code is something like that:

While((DribbleProbability(playerWithBall) > Z)
{
if(TakingA-ShotProbability(playerWithBall) > X)
{
ThrowTheBall();
}
Otherwise if(DrivingProbability(playerWithBall) > Y)
{
PerformDriving();
}
otherwise
{
PassTheBall();
}
}

Each probability is derived from random parameters and skills.
A player with higher experience will take a shot when has better chance (as described on the manual).
The suggestion will just add to that parameters.
The calculation of that probability will be higher in case the player with the ball is the one who had been defined as the clutch player... at the clutch moments.

And as always, this is not really something never heard of, or out of nowhere, but just what exactly happens at a real BB game.

This Post:
00
211641.20 in reply to 211641.18
Date: 3/6/2012 3:13:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
Not true.
Each player has its probability to take his shot upon his stats.
BUT...
At the clutch time you may want that the clutch player will take a larger percentage of the shots.

This is exactly what happens in a real game.
The ball will not go to Fisher at the last seconds, but will go to Kobe much more often compared to the rest of the game.

This Post:
00
211641.21 in reply to 211641.20
Date: 3/6/2012 3:19:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
but i bet this also happen during the game, and how Fisher earned his nick them?

This Post:
00
211641.22 in reply to 211641.21
Date: 3/6/2012 3:32:41 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
but i bet this also happen during the game, and how Fisher earned his nick them?

What happens????

Are you really saying that on clutch time, the clutch shots will have higher percentage for Fisher (comparing to Bryant) compared to the shots spreading during the rest of the game?!?!?

And just that the words will not be something to play around...
Are you claiming that (for instance) if Bryant take 40% of all shots during the game, he will take exactly that at the clutch moments???
Answer - No way.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 3/6/2012 3:36:09 PM

This Post:
00
211641.23 in reply to 211641.22
Date: 3/6/2012 4:26:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
406406
If you have LaBron on your team probability is high that he WONT take the last shot despite being the best player, so?

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