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see there is still alot to be learned, but I am sure with the help from you, the current NT team coach, waggyrob, who said he wouldnt mind to give advice and the english community we can do this.

it is good that the games are on neutral courts, but that makes it even harder :( because as I wrongly thought we stood a chance in 1 or 2 games due to home court advantage and it seems it comes more and more to enthusiasm management...

Just want to say that I did manage to get a player into the U21 chilean team in season 8 and 9. Not a starter, but he played enough games. It is kinda funny, because many players say players for U21 NT should be single position trained, he wasnt, and I even trained 6 players a week :) and still managed to get him in the U21 team... I must have done something right.

Just want to say that I did manage to get a player into the U21 chilean team in season 8 and 9. Not a starter, but he played enough games.

I was aware of that actually. I haven't spoken with you before that I can recall, but your team always does well in the tournament so I've scouted it several times and have had an eye on you for quite some time.

It is kinda funny, because many players say players for U21 NT should be single position trained, he wasnt,

Every country will have differrent criteria for what they'll take. If your player happens to be 2 position trained and is still the best available, then by all means most managers will give him a roster spot. That said, how much better would he have been if he'd been single position trained, especially on defense? It's possible to have an effective 2 position training regimen, but the skills will still be slower coming than with single position. Training 6 in many cases is actually imo more appropriate for a club team, but for an U-21 hopeful single position is undoubtedly best.

I think you are right there. But let me ask you something and it is a kind off rethoric question :) Since I will be suprised if you disagree. Off course this could still be possible.

We have been talking alot in these debates about failing to persuade teams to train their plays in a way that suits the U21 team, and I think we have. I think most off us will agree that single position training for an U21 candidate would be in most cases the best option. However, if you go to a team manager (i have been put in this position myself, in both hattrick and this game) and are being asked to single position train a player, I will say kindly no. Simply because I wouldnt benefit from this. Especially not when you think like me a more balanced player is better than a single trained player. I am sure you know my opinion on this subject since I am sure you read the heated debates about this subject too.

That is why I wouldnt go to a coach and say, hey listen, train this player such and such because it would be the best way to do this. I would suggest what I need, what I think would be best for him and whether he would be willing to find some kind off compromise, and I do believe a few players might than compromise. We dont need many to compromise, only a hand full and perhaps instead off mediocre players we end up with better than average U21 players and perhaps one day get into the U21 team. This is my idea how to best work around this difficult subject, what do you think? If you disagree please let me know why and what you believe is the best solution...

To an extent I do agree absolutely. What I would think is to do much like former managers have done. Ask what the managers plans are for training, and start a back and forth with them. Of course letting them know that single position training would give them an edge can't be a bad thing, but there is little to be done if a manager cares more for his own teams long-term growth than about having a single player make a Jr. NT team for a season or two. Who can blame them?

I do think though that if you start a discussion with a manager, many will be interested in having an U-21 player. Many will actually do exactly what you tell them to if you seem knowledgeable and can show how this wouldn't negatively affect their own squad too much. In many ways it would in fact help their team. For example to get a really top end SF, my personal opinion is you'll need to single train the player as both a PG and a C for at least a couple of seasons each.

So yeah, I think largely your approach is the right way to go. Don't try and force something down anyones throat, but set up a working relationship with the owner and bring the player up together as much as possible. Contact them often if anything just to let them know you're still around if they have questions etc.

Look, if we tought we weren't capable of managing the English NT, we would not be here. I don't think it takes a lot to be able to spy the other teams. Afterall, it's part of managing a club team. So I don't know what the problem is.

2nd It wasn't me who started saying that english comunity was inactive and disinterested



You certainly have repeated it though.

Well, so you are saying that everyone here insulted the english comunity. Don't try to make me say things that I didn't said.



I said I created a good player, not a great player. And remember 1 thing. He's 20 year old. Were you expecting me to have a triple 16 center with 20 years?

I talk about the "bad things" about your club team because it illustrates my concerns. You haven't played long enough to have any "good things" happen for me to talk about yet.

You know that I wasn't talking about club team but staff team...

Astragoth hasn't one what? A team? Look at his roster, compare it to yours. Look at his team ratings, compare it to yours. I haven't looked that deeply, but I would guess he's got scrimmages with higher ratings than your team put up in the finals. So yes, I do feel he has more experience with players of U-21 NT caliber than you do, hence my comments. If I mis-understood your P.S. point, please re-state it.

Once again, you tried to make me stupid by pretending not to understand my question. Seriously, try not to avoid questions, because it seems like you don't want to expose your friends "bad things" and don't want to talk about Fenomeno's list "good things"

@ Astragoth

Just want to say that I did manage to get a player into the U21 chilean team in season 8 and 9. Not a starter, but he played enough games. It is kinda funny, because many players say players for U21 NT should be single position trained, he wasnt, and I even trained 6 players a week :) and still managed to get him in the U21 team... I must have done something right.

well, if I had a Vietnam player, maybe 1 could get him in the NT by training 3 positions. It depends a lot on the value of the team

But look. It's already difficult to convince someone to train one position. So it will be more difficult to a coach who doenst train 1 position to convince someone to do it. It would be like "yeah, if you don't train it it's because it's not good to me to do it"

So yeah, I think largely your approach is the right way to go. Don't try and force something down anyones throat, but set up a working relationship with the owner and bring the player up together as much as possible. Contact them often if anything just to let them know you're still around if they have questions etc.

That is why I would select a few players too that arent fully ready yet to play but are close, to the U21 team. That way every time the coach logs in and sees the little flag next to the guys stats in his own swuad it will remind them that the players is close to get into the U21 team. i know it might sound far fetched, but I do think it could make a small but large enough difference. I might be wrong, but only time can tell...

So yeah, I think largely your approach is the right way to go. Don't try and force something down anyones throat, but set up a working relationship with the owner and bring the player up together as much as possible. Contact them often if anything just to let them know you're still around if they have questions etc.

That was what I was hoping to hear. When I said that, you all were sying that that was already tried and with no success.
But now that it's Astragoth saying, that's the right way to go? OMG

I don't think it takes a lot to be able to spy the other teams. Afterall, it's part of managing a club team. So I don't know what the problem is.

There's a difference between scouting a team, and scouting a team well. You haven't played a level of competition in BB yet I think to know the difference. In lower divisions almost all teams are one dimensional, playing the same tactics nearly every game. At the NT level a team can play any tactic in a given match, so it's much more in-depth.

I said I created a good player, not a great player. And remember 1 thing. He's 20 year old. Were you expecting me to have a triple 16 center with 20 years?

Why would I expect that? I was purely stating that making one decent player doesn't make you a good trainer. As a friend of mine says, even a blind squirrel will sometimes find a nut.

You know that I wasn't talking about club team but staff team...

Actually no, I didn't. But as I've said before, you've named 3 people. Two of which don't have the experience I'd prefer to consider voting for them, and the 3rd doesn't seem to have the time to put into the job to be effective at it.

Once again, you tried to make me stupid by pretending not to understand my question. Seriously, try not to avoid questions, because it seems like you don't want to expose your friends "bad things" and don't want to talk about Fenomeno's list "good things"

I haven't tried to make you (sound) stupid, and I haven't tried to avoid a question at all. IF you're referring to this..

PS: You are talking about my team, but Astragoth hasn't one

I had to take a guess at what you meant, as it's an incomplete statement. There is no actual question there. I even said at the end of my paragraph responding to it:

If I mis-understood your P.S. point, please re-state it.

How is it avoiding your question when I tried to answer you even though you couldn't be bothered to spell out a question? On top of that I even asked for clarification?!?!?!???

Again, as I said earlier, Astragoth isn't my friend. I don't know the guy, and before this thread had never communicated with him in any way to the best of my recollection. As for femeno's list *good things*.. what list are you referring to?

Recap: I've stated my problems with your "team". Lack of experience of 2 of the members, lack of time/interest for the 3rd. PLEASE tell me, as I've asked many times, why I or anyone else should vote for you over someone local (at least has an English team), who has more experience than you do?

But look. It's already difficult to convince someone to train one position. So it will be more difficult to a coach who doenst train 1 position to convince someone to do it. It would be like "yeah, if you don't train it it's because it's not good to me to do it"

That was what I was hoping to hear. When I said that, you all were sying that that was already tried and with no success.
But now that it's Astragoth saying, that's the right way to go? OMG

Earlier this was brought up and I asked what else you would do that hadn't already been done, but you'd ignored my request. So how do you propose to get these users to train efficiently for the NT? Astragoth and I were having a discussion about it, did you have something to add that wasn't already said by one of us? Maybe asking again will get a response?

Last edited by dabomby at 9/10/2009 12:38:15 PM