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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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122310.135 in reply to 122310.134
Date: 12/17/2009 10:05:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
196196
Yes this is a very vulgar way at looking at things and it doesnt take into account the evolution of where we are since BB started but I trust you get the picture and if I was a US user I'd be asking why don't you have superior players on your roster to chose from come match day? Why does Spain/Italy/France (i say france cos my PG is no-where near their roster!)
have players with seemingly superior stats? Answer in my opinion is more dedicated user base. Nothing more nothing less.

From: wozzvt

This Post:
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122310.137 in reply to 122310.112
Date: 12/17/2009 10:08:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
228228
If you could not vote for yourself, which candidate would you vote for (nobody is an option) and why.

I think the most important trait in an NT manager is the commitment to the team, and being willing to devote the time and energy that it requires (not just setting lineups, but tracking several hundred players to keep the DB updated, communicating with managers to help get optimal training, etc). Azariah has already proven a willingness to do this, and if I were not running, he'd have my vote. And if he doesn't end up winning this, I hope he'll consider a u21 run next season.

Last edited by wozzvt at 12/17/2009 10:10:01 AM

This Post:
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122310.138 in reply to 122310.134
Date: 12/17/2009 10:18:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
228228
20-40 managers - thats it. We all know you have them. There really is no excuses.

You think we're not doing this? We had a systematic effort last season to give experienced owners the contacts of the managers that drafted all the top 18yo's to encourage them to give these rookies effective, single position training, or to sell them to someone who will. I know I'm doing it personally, although my trainee wasn't perfect to begin with (I've had great success with Villapadierna, who's the 13th highest salary 21yo in the world, and am using the same plan with a 19yo American now).

The early returns are actually pretty good. We have probably our best 20yo ever that will be fighting his way onto the u21 squad this season, and a really nice looking crop of 19yo's.

This Post:
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122310.139 in reply to 122310.138
Date: 12/17/2009 10:21:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
196196
Then hats off. I wish the English took this approach, alas they opted for the route leading to mediocrity and arent likely to deviate from that soon....

This Post:
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122310.141 in reply to 122310.115
Date: 12/17/2009 6:32:50 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
charles, thank you for your patience. to get to the rest of these questions...

b) Much of club level management involves building a roster, while at the national team level it's primarily about setting the correct game-day tactics. What do you think were your best couple of "tactical" wins at the club level, beating teams you shouldn't have been able to beat in games where everybody was trying their hardest? [This hopefully will get a good discussion going for less experienced users too, since it means you can explain what you were thinking and why it worked. The most common post we get in the help forums is seeking advice on how to beat a strong team with a weaker lineup.]

charles, to get to the rest of these questions.. my best win was here:(10538484)
i went 1-3-1, something i hadnt shown all year. i further started a pf at half of the salary of my typical starter at PF, because the player profile fit the defense better, and because i wanted the more diversified offensive skills. i was also up against US NT SG thad whittington, who was playing mostly pg (but playing it well), and knew that my own combo guard could not go at pg where he usually went. i also got slightly lucky, which you always need as well. If UHRojos win that game, they are a more favorable matchup for the great ThatsWhatSheSaid, and maybe Rojos stays inthe NBBA the last 3 seasons...


5) JuicePats in particular used a very different style of enthusiasm management than almost everybody else at Worlds. Was he doing something better or worse than the rest of BuzzerBeater? How would you have handled the tough group we were dealt?

I want to comment on what someone else said, that we were one result away. Technically yes, but beating spain by 46 on the road is no way to get there. If you need to win all of your games, your best approach is to try to keep the odds of winning each game similar to eachother if it's a linear relationship. So better to have a 50-50 chance in each game than 10-90 in one and 90-10 in the other (the odds of winning both games in the first scenario is 25%, the 2nd scenario it's only 9%). I feel Juice violated this rule, among countless other mistakes.

6) Part of the reason we seem to be in tough groups might be that we have a tendency to focus on minimally getting to the next stage and then conserving enthusiasm. At the U21 level, Brasil played crunch time against us and avoided Argentina, while we saved enthusiasm but lost in the semis anyway (so did Brasil). The situation was set up because we didn't put effort into a game against Argentina that decided which group we would be in for the second round. Should we have been willing to give up enthusiasm to end up with different opponents? Similarly, our tough group draws at Worlds have been in part because we tend to CT the semifinals (and qualify for Worlds) at the expense of trying to win the continental trophy. Is this a good policy? Should we care about winning the Americas?

Again this is relative. How much of a gain would it have been to play Peru vs Brasil in odds of winning? you can set up a fairly simple decision tree, and usually it will yield the best answer. In coco's partial defense, counting on the irrationality and complete misunderstanding of the rules by the brazilian coach would have been tough to predict.

THe continental trophy is a minimum requirement for our userbase. We should care about winning it.

This Post:
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122310.143 in reply to 122310.142
Date: 12/17/2009 7:27:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
you could sort of hide that guy somewhere

porzionato, gambino, fanesi, zanotti, romagnoli.
where in the world do you think you can hide a 11/8 defender?



ill give up my opponent shooting 7 for 9 (10 points above average) if i can extract 12 extra points of offense on aggregate.

would that work against italy? i am not sure. but it's a different approach


This Post:
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122310.145 in reply to 122310.141
Date: 12/17/2009 7:40:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
103103

I want to comment on what someone else said, that we were one result away. Technically yes, but beating spain by 46 on the road is no way to get there. If you need to win all of your games, your best approach is to try to keep the odds of winning each game similar to eachother if it's a linear relationship. So better to have a 50-50 chance in each game than 10-90 in one and 90-10 in the other (the odds of winning both games in the first scenario is 25%, the 2nd scenario it's only 9%). I feel Juice violated this rule, among countless other mistakes.

... snip ...

Again this is relative. How much of a gain would it have been to play Peru vs Brasil in odds of winning? you can set up a fairly simple decision tree, and usually it will yield the best answer.


Can you walk us through the decision trees as you saw them at the time (or as you would see them "at that time" now)? What sort of "level of trying to win" would you have put into the various games in our final Worlds group last time through? If you knew ahead of time that Brazil would CT us, would you have counter-CT'd and actively tried to win the game? Would you have intentionally TIEd and thrown it (again, knowing ahead of time they're going to CT)?

Granted, it's Monday Morning Quarterbacking, but I'm interested to hear your opinion a posteri, since you seem pretty adamantly opposed to the methods that were used at the time.

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