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Yes. You're missing that it's still financially beneficial for him to tank (just barely scraping by the salary floor) than it is to try and field a competitive team, even if the effort is futile. Using a CT here and there, etc. Just trying to take some wins back with him.

In the EPL structure, the notion of a newly promoted Championship team doing this is rightly ridiculous. But that's because that team won't lose its fan support if it relegates from the EPL, yet Stajan will, whether he tries to win or not.

You're missing that it's still financially beneficial for him to tank.

So you want it to be less financially beneficial if he tanks? It seems to me like your concern is just fan survey and not the player salaries floor at all, but I may be wrong here.

Last edited by Fresh24 at 4/25/2011 11:55:01 PM

Yes.

Last edited by RiseandFire at 4/26/2011 12:00:18 AM

As well, you can also look at the opportunity cost to stay in the league, since that's probably going to be lower than demoting if you can pull it off. Looking at Naismith and the NBBA, teams sitting in 6th-7th don't have too incredibly high of records. Heck, depending on the conference, it wouldn't be hard to make 5th or even 4th with a losing season.

It's far more trouble than it's worth to try and rebuild those teams and compare salaries from last season, but how much on average would it take to build your roster a little to be able to come in 6th or 7th instead of 8th? If you can build just enough to survive relegation then you don't have to worry about angry fans the next season and you can keep on moving in your league bringing down that extra TV contract the next year.

The team that had demoted from Div. 1 to 2 last year rebuilt their fan base after about half the season as they won almost all of their games. I think there is no question that you are better off promoting even if you demote the year after.

I still don't think it's an accurate representation of fan response, though. If a new team that has promoted every season in its existence makes it to a very high level and then gets demoted, it's a bit unreasonable that all their fans would suddenly abandon them. My issue with the fan support system in general is that there's no adjustment for difficulty. A 12 season-old team in a country with 23 active teams gets as much of a bonus for promoting into their premier league as a 5 season old team would making a run from a tougher country's DV to their top league. And you as a manager might feel good about yourself for starting poorly and scrapping thing together to make a run/sneak in as the 4 seed in a really tough conference, but your fans consider the season a failure.

I don't see the relevance of promotion/demotion figures. There are clearly several situations (especially pro leagues, but some stronger IIs) where a team has no realistic chance of staying up, but gets penalized for even trying. This also doesn't address the upstart team who promotes and barely stays alive as a #5 or #6 seed, which should be considered a great success but is considered a failure by the fans. These situations get blanketed by majority success in your numbers, but they exist.

Did you fully consider all of these situations before implementing the change? Because I see a lot of managers realizing they're suddenly screwed, despite being extremely successful, because of this change. The fan survey, as it stands, is irrational and unrealistic if it doesn't consider league strength. (It considers a manager's "effort to improve the team," so the competitiveness variable exists already!) It seems as if this discussion is exposing the fact that the fan survey isn't nearly comprehensive enough to reflect reality. I'm not sure how much you looked into this, or how many theoretical situations you looked at (case-by-case, not with general percentage stats like those you provided). But the floor probably needed an altered fan survey as a companion.

As it stands, maybe it's only 5%-10% of managers who are screwed by this change, but that's still a large number.

Last edited by RiseandFire at 4/26/2011 10:52:42 PM