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But look. It's already difficult to convince someone to train one position. So it will be more difficult to a coach who doenst train 1 position to convince someone to do it. It would be like "yeah, if you don't train it it's because it's not good to me to do it"

That was what I was hoping to hear. When I said that, you all were sying that that was already tried and with no success.
But now that it's Astragoth saying, that's the right way to go? OMG

Earlier this was brought up and I asked what else you would do that hadn't already been done, but you'd ignored my request. So how do you propose to get these users to train efficiently for the NT? Astragoth and I were having a discussion about it, did you have something to add that wasn't already said by one of us? Maybe asking again will get a response?

Last edited by dabomby at 9/10/2009 12:38:15 PM

Look. I'm tired of this I've said hundreds of times what I wanted to do. If you can´t read, that's not my problem. Maybe you can't understand what I'm saying because I can't speak english...

I'llsay this again. When I said we would talk to every coach to help them everyone said it had been done and it hadn't work. When Astragoth said the same as I did, it was a great idea. Why?

You said our staff team isn't the best because of unexperience and time. Astrogoth hasn't one. How will he get time to do everything by his own?

If you can´t read, that's not my problem.

I can read quite well actually, tyvm. And if I couldn't it WOULD be your problem, because thats part of the job of an NT manager. To communicate with the community. To take criticism in a positive light and try to improve because of it. Every NT manager I've known has gotten more than their fair share of criticism, as I'm sure elboss, elmacca, and many others can tell you.

Maybe you can't understand what I'm saying because I can't speak english...

I'm starting to fear that may be the case, at least not well enough to do this job well.

I'llsay this again. When I said we would talk to every coach to help them everyone said it had been done and it hadn't work. When Astragoth said the same as I did, it was a great idea. Why?

It HAS been done. It HAS NOT worked. That doesn't make it any less a good idea. What I (and others) had asked you previously was what ELSE you were going to do, as you were implying strongly that you could get these users to see things your way. You never answered those questions as to how you would do that.

You said our staff team isn't the best because of unexperience and time. Astrogoth hasn't one. How will he get time to do everything by his own?

Actually, with the automation of player scouting and tracking having been setup the way it has (thanks former/current managers) I do believe the position can be done by one person, and successfully.

What Astragoth has to the best of my knowledge is both experience and time. Your 3man team consists of 2 people with time but no experience, and one person with experience but no time.

If the division 1 manager had applied for the job himself, I would have been very intersted in hearing what he has to say. He doesn't have the time to run the team and do the things the experienced person needs to do though, as you yourself have said.

guys, can someone please explain to me why he is referring all the time as me being alone. He really doesnt read posts, doesnt understand for whatever reason or he doesnt want too.

I said that I am not alone. My BB buddy ardain will help me scout players when and where is needed, however it seems most off this is fully or nearly fully automated. I have about 6 hours a day time to contact other coahces etc with regards to their players, cant see how I cant do this and with regards to running to the team, I have already stated that I am not alone in that either. I am sure that Waggyrob (former NT coach) the current NT coach, my BB buddy Soel, Elmacca and several others from the english community (like for example bomby) will be more than happy to voice their input when being asked and even when not being asked :)

In case your english isnt gooed enough. Waggyrob, ardain and soel have said when I asked them they would help. This means they are part off the team. I am certain that there will be healthy teamwork between me and elboss and I do know that Elmacca has said he would be more than happy for me to ask him when I need his opinion and when time permits.

How much bigger team do you need me to take?

I've already said what ELSE I was going to do. I'll remember you of Training game, Mentor System and Betting game. Do you remember it now?



Other thing. Astragoth was saying that he would put new players in front of the results. In that case, there's no need of experienced managers to run this NT since the only thing that mathers is creating new players

that's probably my fault.

I used to joke about HCA and then lo and behold Phil won the consolation tournament and for while we did actually have HCA. But Waggy went 4-2 with it and missed out from going through on points difference a shade unluckily.

BTW, I was a buzzerbeater away from beating Sweden, so if we've got no chance against them now, things have definitely gone downhill since then.

I've already said what ELSE I was going to do. I'll remember you of Training game, Mentor System and Betting game. Do you remember it now?

Other than possibly the training game, what of this will encourage a manager to train their player in the manner you feel they should be trained? The Mentor system.. well.. that may be fine for a few new managers, but what about the rest of the community who has had their team more than a couple weeks? Getting a player into 1 NT scrimmage or setting a lineup for one scrimmage game just doesn't seem an enticement to me at all, I'm sorry. I'm glad you feel you've had success with it in portugal, and if you do get elected I hope you have success with it here. I don't feel that any of that will do much good, but we can hope!

Other thing. Astragoth was saying that he would put new players in front of the results. In that case, there's no need of experienced managers to run this NT since the only thing that mathers is creating new players

That was astragoth's plan. Which you criticized. Why do you use it trying to defend a position you hold if you feel he's wrong about it?

I don't think anybody said it hadn't worked. That's your interpretation of the situation, I'd guess because you see little posting on the NT forum.

A lot of the 18yr old prospects past managers have identified made the NT21 team, or at very least went on to play for a club team at a decent level. I have devised entire three-season training programmes for coaches that wanted them, given partial advice to others, been told to 'feck off', and merely hinted to coaches that their prospect might be more useful to the NT if he wanted to train skill a next rather than skill b.

It requires tact, diplomacy and excellent communication skills to talk to the English community about how best to train their prospects.

The idea that you can rock up and tell newbies 'always go for one position training' all the time is naive, to say the least. You will need to spend a lot more time than you think on BBmail explaining exactly why what you are proposing is the best strategy (and it isn't, in my opinion, a mix of 1 and 2 position is best for a new club) and I don't think you will be able to handle the challenges to your 'knowledge' from how you've handled the EBBL coaches in this debate.

As for the team thing. Astrogoth will get support from the community when we asks for it, that's how we work. We appoint a coach and let him get on with it, helping when requested to do so.

EDIT: I see Bomby said it hadn't worked, Well, that's his opinion. We might want to be higher rated than we are but we've still created some good players over the past four seasons.




Last edited by Elmacca at 9/10/2009 1:17:49 PM

1st: Mentor system is not only to players that started the game. There's a lot of managers that play for a lot o f time, but still haven't understand the basics of the game.

Getting a player into 1 NT scrimmage or setting a lineup for one scrimmage game just doesn't seem an enticement to me at all, I'm sorry

It may not be an excitement for you because, as you said, you are accostumed to deal with high level players. But there's a lot of players that would like to have that opportunity



2nd: What I'm saying is that if Astrogoth is giving up from the results, our job can't be worse than his in that aspect, so our experience ( or lack of it as you say) wouldn't count for anything

I dont think the idea with the competition in which a team can win a 1 time spot in the U21 NT is a good idea, I do think for a few players it could persuade them to get more involved. However, after that 1 time than what? He won and the excitement is over, I think you will struggle to keep such a coach interested.

Looking at the current group we got, in the short term there isnt much we can gain, we wont promote and I doubt we have improved over the last few seasons. Not because a lack from the U21 team coach, but due to many different small issues, off which I am sure the active members know exactly what I am talking about, mounted to a decline in player quality for the U21 instead off better players.

Yes you might find my idea stupid, to forfeit a conselation tournament to the benefit off future U21 players, but what is there to loose in doing so? You can that way play more players, get more coaches involved cause their players will play more than only once and you can build experience from some players and even if they would only gain 1 level extra, that is a huge bonuses when a 20 year old gets that level than a 22 year old that just aged and no longer can play for the U21. At our level every small bit matters to qualify into the next round and although I am still learning from every game I play and still have no clue or something along those lines how the GE fully works, I am sure with the cooperation and healthy debates we will have in the community we can make huge steps forward. Whether this will improve the team enough to pass the first group stage, only time can tell. But it is worth a try in my opinion, since almost anything (due to so many smaller things, some that you cant even control) else thus far hasnt worked...

I never said that the idea was stupid. I just said that since the results aren't an issue, lack of experience isn't one too. I just want to ask you a question. You worse results, worse rankings. It will lead to hard groups in the future. DO you think that you will be able to overcome it and qualify in a tougher group?