BuzzerBeater Forums

here is the facts:
Daytrading makes profit. Ofcourse, otherwise it wouldn't even be there.

I agree that in this stage (early stage in the history of a game) in BB the profit might be too big. But that is a difrent matter. For now, let me explain why we NEED daytrading.

You've explained why we need market specialists, not why we need teams making 30 transfers per week, and having rosters larger than can be displayed.

That was the point of my thought exercise. If the DT make the game better, then why wouldn't BB actually hire people to scan the transfer market for bargains and regulate the price?

The alternative is to depend on there being enough DT willing to regularly scan the market for bargains. But is that dependable?

Let's say that I am the equal to another manager in my league as far as tactics, etc. But I'm a little better than him in getting players that I actually use for my team. Both of us get a +4 injury to our star center, so we go to the market. He's in a hurry, and pays $100,000. I have a little bit of time, and am able to log in at various deadlines and so am able to pick up a clone of the player for $70,000. So I am ahead $30,000 of my competitor. Now the day trader is not so clever as I. But he deals in volume. He finds dozens of players for $80,000 and sells them to teams like my leaguemate for $100,000. I could have found the player I bought for $70,000 and bought 4 others for $80,000. But I can't use a team of centers.

The DT can bid $80,000 on 20 players, and wake up in the morning and see what he has won. There is zero cost for bidding on players. There is zero cost for putting players on the market for a fixed mark up, unless you end up paying the salary.

And consider some other possibilities of cost-less trading. You have scouted your opponent and sees that he likes to go inside and you prepare accordingly. Meanwhile he buys 3 3-point bombers plus some passers and your 2-3 zone simply provides more hands to in-bound the ball after the shot is made. He can sell either the 3-point bombers after the game, or perhaps his centers.

I can't use more than 5 players on the court. I can only train 4-6 players. I can't expand my stadium to twice what I can fill. I can't play more than one scrimmage per week. I can only hire one coach, doctor, and PR guy. But I can trade dozens of players per week. That is the problem. It is the volume.

Just one phrase; to regulate the market it's enough to put all the players at zero $ not to have wild DT. I still don't understand in which way the day traders can balance the market... Who thinks that, do you think eveyrone has to make DT to help the comunity?
Without players coming from Bot the DT would never had all this money. Good players unleashed all togheter made DT happy, I think now they don't have anymore the possibility to realise huge profit.

- Teams would ONLY buy a player when the NEED one.
- Not many teams realy need players, they might be lured into buying one that is better than the ones they have, but you'll see later in this list the chances for that get slim without daytrading.
- because of this very few players will get sold, because only few teams will buy players.
- teams that want to sell a player will not likely get much money, or none at all, for their player, so they'll stick to him and play him rather than buy a new one and having to fire the other.
- because everyone will have a hard time selling their players, the price will drop to 1000$ for almost any player.
-if you have a good player that's worth a lot, you will not get a lot, because 10 other teams are offering the same kind of player for 1000$, because there's only 1 buyer interested in the player.

I can't really follow your reasoning here.
Day traders do not increase the number of buyers nor the demand for players. They buy 1 and sell 1.
If they buy (for example) at 10 and sell at 20... this just means there was somebody willing to pay 20 for the original player, with or without day traders.

What day traders do is just to take advantage of ups and downs in the market prices, mainly within different hours of the day or days of the week, so in the very short term.
I agree, though, that they somehow stabilize the market prices, in particular for a new game like BB which has a limited number of on-line players at each moment.

I think it's easiest to start with saying: let's asume that fees, and taxes, makes it impossible to profit from daytrading.
- Teams would ONLY buy a player when the NEED one.
- Not many teams realy need players, they might be lured into buying one that is better than the ones they have, but you'll see later in this list the chances for that get slim without daytrading.
- because of this very few players will get sold, because only few teams will buy players.

I don't agree... If things are like that, then we can conclude that daytraders only exchange players between them, since the other teams aren't buying them... Who buys from daytraders??? Newbies, mostly... Well, those newbies would buy even if there aren't daytraders, and they would buy more cause they wouldn't spend all their money on one expensive player...

And I don't get it when you say that daytraders only sell players for a fair price... I assure you that they don't... They only want to profit without training... I haven't seen any daytrader with a player who has been in his team for the whole season... And I just don't like it... If everyone is daytrader, there would be no sense in having League Leaders, cause no player would have a minimum of games required...

I like the way this thread is continuing and I have to side with LA Lord of Doom -

Despite my recent posts which have been somewhat direct and pro-DT I agree that a balance had to be found. Because of the constant moaning what seems like a temporary measure has been introduced (the 20%) I hope via some more constructive feedback this can be altered to help prevent the volume traders but not active managers trying to build and better their teams.

It is easy to judge a managers style from glancing at his Transfer history and I think this eventually will go against certain managers as i imagine people check who they are bidding against and may choose to outbid a known DT!

I posted a few days back that the TL was a graveyard... the only exception being Thurs which is now simply going to be a feeding frenzy of Retired and Free Agents for cash rich teams.

The divide between top players and mediocre players and the abilities for players to purchase these wil grow and grow and I fear will put off many more players which will inturn fuel the market each Thursday.

I havent seen the numbers but if the active teams drops to 17,000 then thats a lot of decent players that lots of teams cant dream of buying.

Whats the alternative? - Flood the market with even more money..... if teams are competing 1 with money 1 without then theres only going to be 1 winner. What if the poor teams were rich and the rich teams were just richer....??

GM JuicePats as he stated has an impressive stadium as do most or all of the NBBA teams... if you cant see that this is the only way forward then you are sadly behind the curve.....

Its one thing to complain about what goes on in the Transfer market but neglecting stadium expansion is even worse.

If you cant afford to - then having an active transfer market is the only way ALL teams can benefit when they wish to cash in..

to conclude if the transfer market is only active on a thursday then you argue people cant be online all the time... this game is dead if you are always down to work a double shift on a thurs!!

It is easy to judge a managers style from glancing at his Transfer history and I think this eventually will go against certain managers as i imagine people check who they are bidding against and may choose to outbid a known DT!

Why would I outbid a known DT? Remember, he is looking for players he can re-sell for a profit, which are not necessarily the same as a player who is effective in games.

I posted a few days back that the TL was a graveyard... the only exception being Thurs which is now simply going to be a feeding frenzy of Retired and Free Agents for cash rich teams.

When they announced the FA selling, I suggested that they time-match the existing market. That is, if 10% of sales are between H:00 and H+1:00, then 10% of the FA should be listed with deadlines in that period. And there is no reason that they players need to be released on one day, now that players are being removed off the bot teams before being sold.

I havent seen the numbers but if the active teams drops to 17,000 then thats a lot of decent players that lots of teams cant dream of buying.

The numbers are starting to stabilize.

GM JuicePats as he stated has an impressive stadium as do most or all of the NBBA teams... if you cant see that this is the only way forward then you are sadly behind the curve.....

I haven't come close to selling out my stadium except for one playoff game. I think NBBL teams can sell more tickets than D.IV. I started toward the end of last season. I won all 3 league games, and finished 12-10 in a 4-way tie for 3rd to 6th. Unfortunately, I had a very bad PD, and was 6th and I think my season ticket holders deserted me because of my 6th place finish. Other teams that I tied with were promoted during the bot clean-up.

i think the advantage(money) you and teams like doom already got will produce a lot of jealousy.

just a side question how did you knew you able to sell players like borrego and uricchio, its just amazing profit.

you may be forced to outbid a so called DT if the concensus now is to train and keep. If the number of teams is stabilizing then the current crop of better players may dry up altogether from the market.. i would imagine causing inflation at the top end of the market (which is fair for the reward of training) but to buy a $6k salary player over the next few weeks (especially ahead of the playoffs) i imagine will be more exp. and with injuries and transfer deadlines combined with lack of 'fresh meat' for want of a better term - better players will continue to rise leaving the leftovers trading hands for nominal fees.

but with 18,000 managers even if 50% train effectively thats a lot of players going to be hitting the markets in 1-2 seasons!! then we can see prices stabilize and a more realistic Transfer market.....





Edited by Superfly Guy (12/17/2007 12:49:57 PM CET)

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 12/17/2007 12:49:57 PM

fair enough... it just seems that the announcement just co-incided with a monster thread (this one) and the 20% seemed a number just picked out to appease the complainers...

if after consultation this is the magic long term number, great......

what did you think of the idea that more than 1 person can win an auction and then offer a contract and then a combination of length of contract and perhaps sign on fee would determine the outcome.. thus promoting longer contracts / less turnover of playing staff?

For what it's worth, the news announcement titled, "Upcoming Major Changes," (which included agent's fees/commissions), came out a full month before this thread started.