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The fun thing about SB is that the ones that actually do like it has to prove that it works as while those who doesn't only have to say it or in this case write it for it to be so.

Yeah,and it makes prefectly sense
SB have a relevant impact on salary and potential while little to none apparent effects in a game...everyone can see the "negatives" aspects of have SB on their players,that's why SB lovers have to show to the other users the positives of SB,that are hidden or simply non-existent

Handling is another skill that seems to have little effects in game,but his impact on potential and salary seems to be lower than SB,so while I would never train it,doesn't hurt too much

i am unsure about the uselessness of SB, to be honest my players are in a pretty inefficient values for this skill(betwen 8-11 so they impact salary but are very low compared to opponent IS), but when i look at my best blocker(11) : (4599003) he is pretty consistent in sligthly less then 2 blocked shots a game over the last seasons. Also i could assume that the amount of affected shots is roughly the same, and the efficiency of them should be highly impacted ... I could assume it is worth roughly 3 miss shots during a game.

he also takes 13 shots a game, and convert 58% of them(which means 7,54 hit shots). Taking him as his average opposition, the 3 avoided shots by blocking would be more then the half of his miss shots. I am thinking 13 shots ain't so far away from the average, but the average % would be lower but still with 50% shooting blocking wouldn't look bad.

But there are two additional things to consider, blocking is help defence so maybe some of the from blocking affected shots would be against guards so that the number by other defences skilled forced misses will increase why the one from blocking stays the same. Also it didn't looked at OD as a helpful skill by a center, which is a thing i really believing and can back it up with a quite succesfull BB season where i played above 30min+ every game with 8 OD/12 ID centers.

Overall i think the inside defence skills both ain't that important, but blocking didn't looked so bad in comparision to ID to me. Even when a pushing off the ID/SB skill, to lead to the death of inside tactic like it happens some time ago for the outside tactics with OD(a long time inside tactics doesn't seem to work in the current ge)

I want everyone to look at this: http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22793/players.aspx.

This is BB-Charle's team. He must of went bankrupt or something because everyone was listed for $0. Anyway if you take a good look at his team, you notice that there are 16 players with 8+ SB meaning he had to do multiple seasons of SB training. Why would a BB who helped build the game train SB this high on even guards if it was not worth it? If it was not worth training, he would be the guy to know and therefore probably would not have trained it at all. This is a rare look into the BB's mind which should not be ignored.

Interesting considerations in your post
I think your numerical estimation is roughly accurate.When a player is a good shotblocker(over >10 level),SB could intervene in about 20-25% of the shots of his direct adversary(at least,playing with LI where a big man should average more than just 13 shots,I think around 16-17 attempts/game but I'm not sure abut this),sometimes directly(when a SB is registered),sometimes in combination with ID(a Sb is not registered but a shot is altered)
Still,a skill that is used around 20-25% of the times and not always at full effect(because in that 20-25% we are considering the times that it works together with ID too,if ID is poor a shot could be scored also when Sb have an effect on it),doesn't seems to me to justify the salary that it brings,it could show that probably is better to not have SB atrocious with their own big mans,but that when you go over mediocre-average level then the impact on the salary starts to hurt a lot,because make difficult(economically-wise)/impossible(for potential cap effects) to have other big mans skills
I don't agree on your reasoning about blocking working on help defence.I think that when a player shoots,it's considered only the blocking skill of his direct defender,because it would have been evident someway if more shotblockers would affect the same shot(we should have seen some blocked shots made by a player that wasn't the direct adversary of the shooter in that single action,right?)
And I don't agree even on OD for big mans.8 in OD for a big man is a pretty good level,especially when you compare it to the outside shot(JS and JR) of the adversary PFs and Cs.Even the strongest big mans usually doesn't have pretty high level in JS/JR,and when a team attack with some outside tactics,the player are forced to take mid-range shots that OD helps to defend,although I agree that OD is more useful defending on a PF than defending on a C,that usually take less outside shots...and OD doesn't cost nothing for big mans,differently from SB,so even if OD effect were minimal(and I don't think that it is so),you have it for nothing,while you have to pay a lot from have SB effects
And train SB as primary skill(not as consequence of training ID),also subtracts time for other skills's training,and also this is an aspect to count in among "negatives" of SB


Last edited by Steve Karenn at 1/16/2012 10:36:29 AM

I don't agree on your reasoning about blocking working on help defence.I think that when a player shoots,it's considered only the blocking skill of his direct defender,because it would have been evident someway if more shotblockers would affect the same shot(we should have seen some blocked shots made by a player that wasn't the direct adversary of the shooter in that single action,right?)

i am pretty one the BB said something like "X rotates over to help"(or something like that) is an SB event, so you could this one for granted. So lot of Blocked shot should be on help d.

PS: i used OD to make ID weaker, and attack the argumentation better "train ID instead of Shotblocking since it added much more to the defence" -argument. I trained OD for my big, and/or bought then with them, but in terms of efficiency i had to add it is really slow ;)

I don't agree on your reasoning about blocking working on help defence.I think that when a player shoots,it's considered only the blocking skill of his direct defender,because it would have been evident someway if more shotblockers would affect the same shot(we should have seen some blocked shots made by a player that wasn't the direct adversary of the shooter in that single action,right?)

i am pretty one the BB said something like "X rotates over to help"(or something like that) is an SB event, so you could this one for granted. So lot of Blocked shot should be on help d.

Ok,thanks,this Sb event however should be one of those events where Sb is used in combination with ID,that still remains the main skill
So Sb should act in more than 20-25% of the times,maybe 25-30 or something similar...this improves a little bit SB reputation,but not enough to make any of my point someway invalid
When someone ask you "you would prefer to have a better defence on 5-7 adversary shots,or have an additional 80k player to use in a game?",the answer should still be the same ;D

I want everyone to look at this: http://www.buzzerbeater.com/team/22793/players.aspx.

This is BB-Charle's team. He must of went bankrupt or something because everyone was listed for $0. Anyway if you take a good look at his team, you notice that there are 16 players with 8+ SB meaning he had to do multiple seasons of SB training. Why would a BB who helped build the game train SB this high on even guards if it was not worth it? If it was not worth training, he would be the guy to know and therefore probably would not have trained it at all. This is a rare look into the BB's mind which should not be ignored.

for me it looks more like that the next BB is leaving the titanic...........

i believe it is more a pure event, at least from the player maybe additional id from the real defender ;)

"you would prefer to have a better defence on 5-7 adversary shots,or have an additional 80k player to use in a game?

the think is, that SB work pretty hard when the dude decide to try it while ID have very low efficiency even when it works on more shots. Thats my point of view currently. So i am currently going more for SB and OD then on ID himself.*

* even when my roster is still more oldschool with few blocking, but at least i trained it 2 of my last 4-5 weeks.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/16/2012 11:25:01 AM

i believe it is more a pure event, at least from the player maybe additional id from the real defender ;)

Shouldn't a pure SB event occur only when appears on the play-by play history that a shot is blocked?

"you would prefer to have a better defence on 5-7 adversary shots,or have an additional 80k player to use in a game?

the think is, that SB work pretty hard when the dude decide to try it while ID have very low efficiency even when it works on more shots. Thats my point of view currently. So i am currently going more for SB and OD then on ID himself.

ID works on EVERY inside shot,while SB sometimes boost it.Without ID,you just don't have defense,and also SB would have less effect because when it works boost less defense
Boost defense on 5-7shots/game worth 30-40-50-60k(depending on the other big man skills)/player?

SB works less then ID, but when it is turned on it affect the prohability a lot depending on BBs so also an affective shot should most likely miss.
While i doubt the efficiency of ID, with the few but mostly high percentage shots the C takes atm. So i go more for the tool, which avoids then from time to time then something which have little effect on every shot.

But maybe high ID makes it also easier to block, is possible and would be against my future strategy.

When SB works well,you have a super defense BECAUSE SB and ID effects are combined.SB seems in your eyes more efficient than ID,because when SB work you have two skills(SB+ID) that work against adversary player,but when SB doesn't work,you have only ID agaist the adversary offensive player
SB seems to work more as higher is its level,but seems to work only in a limited portion of overall adversary shots even when it's at the highest level,and when the SB level becomes higher,training of the other skills,salary and potential are highly affected,so you have less IS/ID/REB(that work every action) for the same salary

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 1/16/2012 11:49:09 AM

but when i replace some ID with SB i have much more skills for the same salary working in my favours ;)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 1/16/2012 12:09:37 PM