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I'm gonna make one point - speaking of how relegating team shouldn't be stronger than his new opposition and how promoting team should be able to stay on the higher league - what about changing the promotion bonus formula? Well, there is no formula right. But (speaking about div 1 for example) promoted team gets one milion. i don't think that making this amount constant is a good idea. Sometimes, like lately that amoun was nearly nothing because of market prices, amount of money in the game through new tv rights and merchandise formulas etc., other seasons it may no be that bad but it is still very mild amount money to actually help. I guess it is better than overdo it but what about connect that amount to something and make it variable. Avergae net income of the league would be a bad idea but what about something you are already using for income from tv rights? Something like comparing tv revenue from previous season to virtual tv revenue what a hypothetic league of (typically 4) newly promoted teams would net. Or something like that and use it a coeficient for formula. Maybe include some TPE as well. Just a thought.


(anyone feel free to start a thread for it on suggestion board if you want)

Just for the fun and because of all the drama, those are skill of LeBron and Dwight Howard, quoting BBs from Buzzerbeater NBA predictions board (Forrest posted them):

Jump Shot: prominent Jump Range: awful
Outside Def.: strong Handling: prominent
Driving: legendary Passing: prodigious
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: proficient
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: prominent

Experience: legendary


lebron is a 5th year starter in the league with playoff experience, so I think a lot of experience is appropriate...

anyway.. here's a preview of dwight

Jump Shot: proficient Jump Range: atrocious
Outside Def.: average Handling: pitiful
Driving: respectable Passing: inept
Inside Shot: prolific Inside Def.: tremendous
Rebounding: wondrous Shot Blocking: prodigious
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: awful

so put that into perspective... (using how8.com Buzzerbeater Player Salary Calcualtor)

According to old formula, Dwight (I choose exp of lvl 15 but that shouldn't matter much) would have salary of 110k. Add 5-10% and you would get waht his current salary would look like. LeBron would cost you 49k + 5-10%.

When Lebron is not enough, things get expensive...

Surprisngly LebRon is a PG and Dwight is a PF. I wonder how BBs consider them now:)

I think your suggestion has good theoretical basis.. but emprically we are finding that newly promoted teams are competing quite well in their new leagues. about 1900 teams promoted two seasons ago, only to fall back this season, out of 45000. So that says on average newly promoted teams are doing far better than expected.

edit.. sorry that 45000 number is wrong.. its just under 12000. The point is still valid, but the number was wrong

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 3/27/2010 7:04:40 PM

But that's in current environment when they actually preparefor the next elvel including having a roster simillar to next level or at least on par with mentioned relegated team. If there would be little to no room to maintain such a roster, they won't dothat well on next level. They may advance at the expense of ex-higher divsion team more often (they do often ven now) but their chance to stay above would be slimmer. That worries me. Better management could still overomce that to some extent. Last but not least it depends on how balanced confrences of particular DIv 1 are (well maybe promotion bonus can be assigned separately depending where the new team would land too).

i am really confused with your statement...

you are not being clear about what kind of teams you are talking about.

lets say we are looking at DII. There are teams moving up from DIII, there are also teams falling into DIV, and falling into DII from DI.

What I said, is that if you look at teams that promoted into DII last season, and then asked how many of them fall back into DIII this season, that number is ~1900/12000 teams fall to that feat. I don't see how their chance to say above is slim.

You seem maybe to be implying something is going to change to make that no longer true in the future.. but i'm not sure what that is.

or maybe you are implying something else that i can't follow.

can you try to rephrase and be clearer.

Past (till Season 12) - premise 1: teams relegating from higher league lets say Div 1 can somewhat keep their roster; if they can do other teams in DIV 2 can have comaprable roster i.e. they can prepare to the next step

Present: premise 2: if keeping your players after relegating would be impossibile/difficult/cost you a lot i.e. situation you want to have where leading teams in DIV 2 can't really have roster to compete with average DIV 1 team -> then those numbers of teams staying in DIV 1 after their promotion could be tweaked and will be almost certainly lower, simply because in given conditions they won't be able to build their team for DIV 1 in advance. It may go other way, but watch those staying vs falling back numbers closely, with all the changes making impact now it is not safe to assume that the ratio will be surely roughly the same next season. We'll see.

Got it now?:)

i do.. you think the numbers will change.

However, I'm sure that because a larger percentage of revenue is coming from TV money than in the distant past, and that increased salaries are going to generally make transfer prices lower, that promotion money is going to be more effective at letting newly promoted teams buy players necessary to compete at the D1 level.. not less so.

but we will keep watching, and if we are wrong we will do something about it.

A player like Dwight Howard havent place in BB.


PD: Inflation coming again pfff.....:s

Last edited by Marot at 3/29/2010 6:33:08 AM

I think your suggestion has good theoretical basis.. but emprically we are finding that newly promoted teams are competing quite well in their new leagues. about 1900 teams promoted two seasons ago, only to fall back this season, out of 45000. So that says on average newly promoted teams are doing far better than expected.

edit.. sorry that 45000 number is wrong.. its just under 12000. The point is still valid, but the number was wrong

I ahve jsut realized that you are counting all leagues righht? You should count all levels separately. Of course in the lowest level almost everybody capable of running the team decently will stay above, if he already managed to be promoted. With helps of bot teams, non-acvtive teams, or with no so so good managers as a competition. I am pretty sure the numbers will decline significantly with highe and higher levels. Could you make those numbers for Divs 1 and Div 2 (separately) public?

im sure it will decline too... but it should given bot levels etc.

before i give the number i want you to tell me what it should be and what would be too high?

I know that in my country and I.1 it is around 1 of 4 new teams staying above. I think it should be around 50% maybe slightly over. And that is because the relgation penalties. That thing shouldn't be in the game at all I think. Many clubs relegate right after they've been promoted in the first year. Although they tend to/have to have similar rosters to slighlty below average (it depends on a country I guess) Div 1 team they are punished mightily if they fail to stay above, so it is hardly beneficial to be promoted then. They were being on their way to be competititve and now that choice is a bit of given away because of that harsh penalties. I don't think 20% is that high cause if they don't deserve to stqy above, they would be probably flushed away to Div 2 by the next wave of rookies. Without harsh penalties for relegating team bigger roatiton wouldn't be a problem.

I know from my former Div 2 that there were 2 new teams (or re-promoted appearing in the same league again) from 4 (or 5 in one year) staying above for the period of my existence there. I didn't see much of a problem, weaker roookie terams ended up 7th or 8th and stromnger ones starte to challenge old teams of the league. That's in a country existing from Season 3 with 4 levels of competitiion, so some newly Div2 are quite new. But sooner or later we will reach equilibrum worldwide and then such al eague would be more challenging if those ration of new teams staying above would be kept - which probably won't be the case as the game tends to "closingů the leagues from top to the bottom slowly but steadily. If there wasn't artificial gaps among levels, with equilibrum reached league with 2/4 rookies staying above would be more as there won't be as much treadmilling teams as there is now.

Other problem is unbalanced leagues. In my country there is 25% of bad luck ending in big 8 where 7 from TOP 9 teams are and if you are in Div 1 first time you have no chance to stay above there - which leads to 3 (6th to 8th) relegating teams of Great 8 insterad of 2 and 2 making it even harder for 2 rookies to stay above as they are competing for 5 th place to be saved. if you keep those relegating penalties, with current salaries, probably even experuinced fromer Div 1 team promoting to that strong 7 in Big 8 would be face against mission impossible because as you wish he couldn't kep his player in Div2 thus losing competiveness against top dogs.

For example I expect my gate receipts to fall from just over 500k to below 250k. That is not realistic and i don't see a purpose for that. I admit I got promoted underdeveloped not having top roster yet but you want to promote if you got a chance (and I got to the strong 7 anyway, not complaining, it happens).