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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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276706.158 in reply to 276706.157
Date: 2/19/2016 7:05:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5353
hypothetical question for all potential managers,
Two players look like this at start of u21 year, whats your action, if any.

Player A
7/12/12/3/4/10/8/10/10/12

Player B
8/8/9/6/6/10/10/10/10/12

This Post:
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276706.159 in reply to 276706.157
Date: 2/19/2016 7:07:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
The three point changes, should they be significant, will not be seen for the next two seasons, maybe three. Guys that are 20-21 likely wouldn't be molded to that perimeter style of play. For the SB change, I think that was more of a personal call from phyr. He still used one or two bigs with SB and guards with decent SB.... But I get the sense that he wasn't that keen on it. Perhaps owners of players didn't want in as well.

Finally, the offsite isn't one big family, it's several small groups of people working towards different priorities. It hasn't been at a cabal level since old man Jfarb01 retired

This Post:
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276706.160 in reply to 276706.157
Date: 2/19/2016 7:33:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Spoonerific,

If you actually followed the U21 team, you would know that we have played a diverse set of tactics since EBW was manager which is the last 8 seasons. The balance between inside and other tactics I would say is actually closer to 50/50 than you think. The idea that we have also failed with this approach has been proven false multiple times in this thread. The sim is changing and we have in fact been proactive in make changes, but you wouldn't know that because your dislike for the offsite blinds you from actually seeing what goes on there. We had a team in S32 that beat the best inside team in the world using outside offense. There are SG builds that have been proven more effective than the one you listed, which are probably going to be even more effective with the new slight changes to 3PT%.

This Post:
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276706.161 in reply to 276706.158
Date: 2/19/2016 9:50:28 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
Player a is almost doomed with regards to the u21 spot. Doesn't have enough dr/ha/is. He should get pumped 1v1 forwards. Player b would have a shot. Pump 1v1 and then I'd. Balanced inside sf.

This Post:
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276706.162 in reply to 276706.160
Date: 2/19/2016 9:57:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
102102
No one has built an elite SG that I am speaking of, so how can you even say that it is better? The build I am speaking of isn't necessarily devoid of HND/DRV/PA its just delayed, depending on POT and base build it could start training those at Age 20. Specifically if PA was to be trained then it would train fairly quickly.

My point on inside focus was on the last few season which seem like any big game LI or LP is run {you know if a game is run at all}, but maybe that's just me.

As far as waiting to see how the sim responds then starting to build after that is asking to end up lagging behind in the metagame that is 10-12 seasons of training.

But I'm glad that you all know exactly how the sim will react to the changes and that "your" builds are optimized to perform in it.

This Post:
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276706.163 in reply to 276706.162
Date: 2/20/2016 11:18:16 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Cant wait to see your elite SG help us win a gold

From: FurY

To: Phyr
This Post:
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276706.164 in reply to 276706.163
Date: 2/20/2016 12:34:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
Pretty much this. I can't speak for all candidates or future u21 managers, but if you gave me a 90 tsp guard at the start of the u21 season with the build... I'd have to give the player an opportunity to play so that I could see what he has to offer. For now we simply can't run this player out there without having one ready to go. We might as well analyze data from league games for the newest changes even though that is a rather imperfect science

This Post:
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276706.165 in reply to 276706.162
Date: 2/20/2016 3:12:24 PM
Smallfries
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
417417
Second Team:
Smallfries II
I agree that we have lacked the SGs you talk about and have had very few. I also agree with making PA the last thing you train, when he turns 21 as it will train fast. I think there is the potential to see more of these in the future.

On a side note though- Spoon why dont you log back into the offsite and see what is going on. I hope you and everyone else joins with NT discussions this season and I would love to hear some of your opinions. Doesn't mean we will necessarily use tactics and players some suggest as I am focused on winning, but you never know when we might get the chance to try things. This comment goes for everyone as well. If you have tactic opinions or differing build styles for players then please send me a message or comment on the offsite for me to see.

From: A-Dub

This Post:
11
276706.166 in reply to 276706.165
Date: 2/20/2016 5:27:25 PM
Upsyndrome
III.15
Overall Posts Rated:
697697
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
I keep hearing managers speak of these inside training methods I've suggested as if the only thing I am focusing on is high IS and DV -- thus hindering our outside game and /or defense. Absolutely not, training 1v1f would allow us to create offensively versatile prospects with high JS/IS/HN/DV -- all the scoring one would need; while at the same time, also being able to switch back and forth from offense to defense. That is an incredibly quick and efficient way to stack both defense and offense -- which, with the little time we have to train U21 prospects, that's huge.

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: FurY

This Post:
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276706.167 in reply to 276706.166
Date: 2/20/2016 7:08:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
109109
I don't know that i was implying that your builds only had those two attributes, but more that those two attributes were the cornerstone of what you would consider on the u21 team. A player with those builds with 7 OD, 7 PA, and 7 JS would not work, you would still need to do some basic housekeeping to make the build work out. The argument was simply that a more standard PG would still have to be in place (16-17 OD, 13-14 PA) and such a player is unlikely to have the desired DR/HA/IS to fit your build (JS being indfferent between the two).

From: tough
This Post:
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276706.168 in reply to 276706.83
Date: 2/20/2016 10:30:03 PM
Mountain Eagles
III.1
Overall Posts Rated:
763763
Second Team:
Ric Flair Drippers
Since EPK is no longer with us, I think, I will reply to everyone whom this question may concern.

With that in mind, are we not clearly explaining things (communicating) to the managers that are newer or new to the U21/NT scene? How will the remaining candidates address issues such as this? This is a manager that has been around on the off-site since S26.


I think sometimes we just PM the person of what type of player to build, and not the exact skillset that is needed for that build, as said.

With the newer group who doesn't necessarily use the offsite, I'll make sure the the scouts know what kind of options that trainer can use (that are realistic enough to do in order to either make the U21 team or meet their own club's expectations) and as we all do best, scout and give the manager's the best advice possible. I think our mentoring skills had taken a bit of a step back from previous years, as I know everyone is still trying to find the best way to get around with the finances they have in stock. But, with that in mind, this scouting program that I keep bringing up will enhance communication a lot with the trainers at hand.

3 Time NBBA Champion. Certified Trainer. Mentor. Have any questions? Feel free to shoot me a BB-Mail!
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