BuzzerBeater Forums

I see you thought it out well, I appreciate your effort, but I really don't want transfers. I'm firmly against any such proposal..

Since you provide no details or arguments to defend your position, all I can say is I disagree with your opinion.

So thats the problem - the game economy is based on around excess money being used to purcahse new players, if you take that away, (even partially), then the whole game economics would need to change - drastically - which just can't happen.

The above quote is from the thread you linked. Your argument is that the economy could not handle this change. My idea addresses this by leaving the Transfer List tool of buying and selling players in the game. The manager chooses whether or not to allow trades for their player. If they don't choose to allow trades when they put the player on the TL, they get paid in cash, just like they do now. Even if they allow offers, if they don't accept any of them, they still get paid in cash.

The biggest difference is now they have the additional option of accepting another player in trade for the player they put up.

Now - onto real life sports trading - lets use the NBA as an example.
Most trades in the NBA, especially now, are because of the following factors
- Player is unhappy with team (or doesn't get along with coach - think Deron Williams - Utah Jazz scenario) - team trade him.
- Player contract is causing financial issues and so you end up 'trading' the contract. (eg: You take the large contract of player X, and give me a good player Y in return).
- Player asks to be traded

less and less likely will NBA players be traded for other players in order to meet team requirements, like how it would work in BB. BB won't ever need trading due to contract reasons or player not getting along. The only reason why you would trade is because you have player X who doesn't quite fit into your system and you want someone of equal value, but with slightly different skill sets who WILL fit into your system. Which doesn't happen much in real life.

also I just don't know how often people would be willing to risk a trade.

Actually, a lot of trades in the NBA happen because of contract reasons. For example, the Kevin Love trade is happening because he is not going to stay in Minnesota after his contract ends. So, they are trading their best player to get value for him. The Dwight Howard-Andrew Bynum-Andre Igoudala trade happened for the same reason, because Dwight was not going to stay in Orlando when his contract expired.

Plus there is the whole increased in cheating thing, which is pretty obvious.

I have seen this argument in a few threads about trades. I thought I did a pretty good job of covering the restrictions in my idea that would prevent cheating. Does anyone have any examples of cheating that could occur under the idea I put forth? Just saying there could be cheating, without explaining how that would be accomplished is like saying the Bulls are going to win the championship without explaining how they will beat the Cavaliers or the Spurs.

Last edited by Tom Bane at 8/18/2014 2:07:41 AM

my main argument is trading is a pandora's box of cheating.
the TL is the most equitable program for player acquisitions

ok ill explain a bit more.

1) Economy and my linked post - If i spend $500k on players per season......, but then trading comes along and I trade instead, what do I do with my extra $500k per season? I would probablyl just run at a massive financial loss all season with a monster roster (which ive traded for)....which BTW, if you have ever experienced a league where normal rosters are $400k and two teams decide to have $1m rosters - its not fun
Alterantively, with my extra cash that im not spending on players because im trading, ill just spend more and more money on buying other players - so instead of paying $1m for that player, ill pay $2m, because ive got all this extra cash - this leads to Player inflation which is not good for anyone.
So I use that as an example to show that the current economic setup is very fragile to change. If you take away that exchange of money between two teams, its like closing the stock market for two weeks. financial chaos. its too fragile to implement something that would have an impact on the normal way the economy works.


2) Reason why teams trade in real life - I think we are actually agreeing here? My point that i was making is that in real life, most teams trade for contractual reasons (ie: What you said) - but there are no contracts in BB, there are no disgruntled players whom i need to offload - i dont have an expiring contracted player who will be a free agent next season ....so ...... why trade again? The reasons to trade in real life are massive, compared to the reasons in BB.

3) So cheating occurs, it occurs now. Back in the day i remember seeing the site home page declaring ridiculous banning numbers, something like 200 users banned in a single week. I also remember reading bout how it was cheating 'syndicates' - groups of people of about 30-40, who all had work and home computers and created duel teams and transfered with each other such that the paper trail was so long, and they were all helping national teams and etc etc etc. and it took BB a whole year to track them all down. Was pretty interesting actually...
So cheating occurs. ..... a lot........ So bringing in another facility which would actually be even harder for BB's to track as a 'cheating' transaction - not good. not good at all. In fact, probably the death of the game.

So I hope ive cleared that all up for you.

yes this is essentially a situation where, BB's won't be able to monitor 'unfair' trades. If a noob comes along, and you're able to trade for his good players, whilst giving him rubbish, then there is no way that BB can monitor this.

We already have this problem where noobs spend their starting money on over-priced players, but at least there is some formulae for BB's to monitor these sales, and if they breach the sale limit/TPE, then they can pick up some of these.

But having trading would certainly increase the ability for people to just troll noobs for trades and perform bad trades.

and your example here is really about this.

I'll trade my tall 19 y old draftee SG with OD at 2, potential benchwarmer for your 18 y old draftee PF with 4/5 in OD/Passing and nothing too bad for inside skills, potential HOF. You can't refuse because you are me or a friend of a friend. And this will go unnoticed since the trade can be accepted, signed and done in 5 minutes top.

Since they have similar salary, it works within your restrictions.

I saw a similar example of a bad trade in the other thread. I don't understand it. Your problem is that the trade is unfair? I can't refuse because of real life obligations? This does not sound like a problem to me. This is a manager making a bad management choice. I thought the whole point of the game was to manage a team. It doesn't really matter if I manage it well or not unless you are going to have good managers "taking over" bad managers teams for them, since they suck at managing. It would be nice if all managers were competent, but 49.9% of all people are below average.

There is currently nothing that prevents the exact same thing from happening where, instead of a trade, the player buys a crappy SG off the TL for 25K and sells his amazing PF for 1k. It's true that his friend may not get the PF, but even if his friend traded for him, under my idea, that is the only trade they can do with each other for the entire season.

yes this is essentially a situation where, BB's won't be able to monitor 'unfair' trades. If a noob comes along, and you're able to trade for his good players, whilst giving him rubbish, then there is no way that BB can monitor this.

We already have this problem where noobs spend their starting money on over-priced players, but at least there is some formulae for BB's to monitor these sales, and if they breach the sale limit/TPE, then they can pick up some of these.

But having trading would certainly increase the ability for people to just troll noobs for trades and perform bad trades.

and your example here is really about this.

If it's really about protecting the poor helpless noobs, BB should not allow them to buy new players for the first season they play. Then they can't make any bad roster choices. Actually, BB should also have someone from a higher league run their team for them, just in case they make bad lineup choices or always pick the GDP wrong. The whole point of playing the game is to be a manager. It doesn't say anything on the signup page about having to be good at it.

It would be difficult under my idea for a player to get 'rubbish' in return for a player on their roster since the salaries have to be similar. Yes, you could get a player that is not optimal in return for your better player, but that is why the option to trade has Accept and Reject buttons. As the selling manager, you get to decide if the deal is actually good for your team or not and Reject it if it isn't. Heck, the noob manager could even go to the forums and ask for a mentor to find out if he is getting conned or not.

1) Economy

If i spend $500k on players per season......, but then trading comes along and I trade instead, what do I do with my extra $500k per season?

I see BB has made strides to address this issue in the latest changes to the draft with adding new features that cost money to use. I would assume BB would continue making changes such as these to address the glut of money in the system. Maybe add new coaches that cost salary every week or unlock the supporter feature for logos and banners and instead charge teams money to purchase a logo and/or a banner. Or add jerseys and charge teams to design them.

I would probablyl just run at a massive financial loss all season with a monster roster (which ive traded for)....which BTW, if you have ever experienced a league where normal rosters are $400k and two teams decide to have $1m rosters - its not fun

Under my idea, if you have traded for your whole roster, you would have money and a roster of players worth less than the roster you started with. You can never trade for a player that is worth more than a player you already have. But, then you could go on the TL and spend your extra money for a superstar. I didn't make any changes to the TL, so that is still an option.

Alterantively, with my extra cash that im not spending on players because im trading, ill just spend more and more money on buying other players - so instead of paying $1m for that player, ill pay $2m, because ive got all this extra cash - this leads to Player inflation which is not good for anyone.
So I use that as an example to show that the current economic setup is very fragile to change. If you take away that exchange of money between two teams, its like closing the stock market for two weeks. financial chaos. its too fragile to implement something that would have an impact on the normal way the economy works.

Managers are doing this already. One guy boasted in USA chat during the last live game that he sold his whole roster for 3.5 million. He figured he was in 8th place and was going down a league anyway, so now he has 3.5 million to spend on whatever player he wants. Will he be banned for cheating if he overbids? Why? The TL gave him 3.5 mil for his roster.

In my idea, he could have traded his high dollar players away for lower salary guys that will still help him in the lower league and have money leftover to buy a few points for the upcoming draft so he can use some of those nifty new features. He wouldn't have 3.5 mil to throw around and he would still have a team that is competitive.

3) So cheating occurs, it occurs now. Back in the day i remember seeing the site home page declaring ridiculous banning numbers, something like 200 users banned in a single week. I also remember reading bout how it was cheating 'syndicates' - groups of people of about 30-40, who all had work and home computers and created duel teams and transfered with each other such that the paper trail was so long, and they were all helping national teams and etc etc etc. and it took BB a whole year to track them all down. Was pretty interesting actually...
So cheating occurs. ..... a lot........ So bringing in another facility which would actually be even harder for BB's to track as a 'cheating' transaction - not good. not good at all. In fact, probably the death of the game.
So I hope ive cleared that all up for you.

I don't see how my idea would actually allow these syndicates to cheat any more effectively than they could if they use the TL. Players would still transfer from team to team, just like they do under the TL. BB would still track which teams they went to, just like they do now. Since my idea uses the existing transfer structure already in the game, the existing anti-cheating mechanisms would still be just as effective.

The only thing that I think my idea is missing is a cooldown on how often a player can be traded. Let me add that in real quick. This would stop someone from trading a guy from team to team to team quickly until he gets where he wants him to be.