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I completely agree that the best skill is SB to shot the shot. My argument is that the other two skill are useless. If I were to weigh the skills from my own experience [including my own high SB players] I'd say SB .42, ID .31 and REB .27 and I'd build my players accordingly.

Going all in on SB will shot the initial shots but you'll face more shots [from denying entry passes and missing boards]. Added that more shot attempts against your player means more chances for fouls and injuries chances.

I can provide you with the stats and data. Later I will post some stuff.

So let's see:

I describe ID and SB like this:
- ID is needed for everything which happens before the shot attempt
- SB kicks in as soon as the opponent tries to shoot

There are three cases:

1) ID > SB
The most common case. ID works here against DR and IS. Most of the bigs defend their opponent and as soon as the shot is taken they have no SB to alter/block the shot. For seasons we saw how low the blocking stats are.
To make it even clearer: every shooting foul is a failed block attempt!

Several seasons ago I made a quick analysis about ID and SB. (245985.84)
Both guys had OD 1 and almost the same ID. They played against the same opponents and the only difference was their SB.

2) ID = SB
The most efficient combo. Image it like this:
ID and SB are two related skills which coexist. The GE takes both into account and "ranks" them.
Example:
ID 15 and SB 10
ID 15 is the higher skill and stands for 100%
SB 10 is lower and only 66% of ID 15.
So your overall "potential" for this combo is under 100% (what would be ID 15 and SB 15).

Same goes the other way:
ID 10 and SB 15
SB 15 = 100%
ID 10 = 66%
You're playing with an underskilled big.

For most of the time ID 13-SB 13 until ID 15-SB 15 is the most cost efficient solution. The shooting foul rate is under 10%, success rate for defended shots is between 65% and 85% (depends on the league) and the shot block rate is between 35% and 40%.

3) SB > ID
This skill set is really nice for lower leagues, but will backfire as soon as you face stronger opponents.
The reason:
ID is the foundation for SB. Without ID a player can't block... First your big has to defend an opponent (that's ID) and only after the shot attempt SB is needed. So if your ID is too low, your big will be outplayed and he will miss the opportunities for blocks.
Example:
ID 11 - SB 17
You are playing against DR 9 and IS 12 bigs. That's on the same level like ID 11. So your player will defend a lot of actions and be a blocking beast.
Now you promote and the bigs have DR 13 and IS 16. Your guy will be outplayed because his ID 11 is far too low. Sometimes he will be able to defend shots, but they will end up more and more as shooting fouls because of the lack of ID (ID does the work before the shot and if the shot attempt wasn't weakend enough, SB won't be enough to block).


Last edited by Nachtmahr at 12/30/2015 9:19:07 AM

I do wonder if a lack of ID would result good DR guys to just drive pass the defender in put it in without the defender able to use his SB since he's not in position to even contest the shot.

3) SB > ID
This skill set is really nice for lower leagues, but will backfire as soon as you face stronger opponents.
The reason:
ID is the foundation for SB. Without ID a player can't block... First your big has to defend an opponent (that's ID) and only after the shot attempt SB is needed. So if your ID is too low, your big will be outplayed and he will miss the opportunities for blocks.
Example:
ID 11 - SB 17
You are playing against DR 9 and IS 12 bigs. That's on the same level like ID 11. So your player will defend a lot of actions and be a blocking beast.
Now you promote and the bigs have DR 13 and IS 16. Your guy will be outplayed because his ID 11 is far too low. Sometimes he will be able to defend shots, but they will end up more and more as shooting fouls because of the lack of ID (ID does the work before the shot and if the shot attempt wasn't weakend enough, SB won't be enough to block).

Going along these lines... what have you for Guards or SB attempts on Jump Shots vs inside shots. so like an OD:SB comparisons?

I'm hoping that by running a zone it that it would make up alittle for the lack of ID. Does OD have any effect on DR? I remember this American manager named SM that was really successful in the NBBA. He won two cups and the NBBA once. He didn't invest in ID at all. The highest ID he had on a player was 10. He was able to do this because he had tons of OD. When I get in higher division I plan on loading up on OD as well.

what have you for Guards or SB attempts on Jump Shots vs inside shots. so like an OD:SB comparisons?

After Marin changed SB, some managers and I analysed a bunch of games in my federation.
Our result:
95 Blocks against Driving Layup (close range)
94 Blocks against Jumper (mid range)
70 Blocks against Dunk (close range)
39 Blocks against Tough inside shot (close range)
22 Blocks against Tip-in (close range)
21 Blocks against Layup (close range)
16 Blocks against Fade away (close range)
5 Blocks against 3er (long range)

There are four different kinds of jumper (all four mid range actions) and the jumpers are second behind driving layups.

I still don't know how the engine defends these jumpers. But I think there is a ratio of OD:ID and as soon as the shot attempt occurs, SB will kick in. So the same like in the paint.
For my team, I use always SB 7+ Guards. OD does most of the work for them, but it's nice to know that there is a second skill which influences the shot and I think sometimes it makes a difference. My SG has SB 8 and he has 1.3 blks/game. My SF has SB 12 and has 1.5 blk/game. Both defend outside because I play a 3-2 zone. So for outside players it's okay.

I'm hoping that by running a zone it that it would make up alittle for the lack of ID. Does OD have any effect on DR? I remember this American manager named SM that was really successful in the NBBA. He won two cups and the NBBA once. He didn't invest in ID at all. The highest ID he had on a player was 10. He was able to do this because he had tons of OD. When I get in higher division I plan on loading up on OD as well.

You need OD to defend the opposing Guards. Every play starts with the PG, so OD will kick in and work against him. If your OD is so high that you can demolish the passing and driving of your opponents, you bigs don't need so much ID.
Let me explain it with an example:

Your players defend.
The PG has the ball and he wants to pass it to the C. He has PA 13 and without defenders he would have a nice pass to the open C. So the pass is at 100% and as soon as the C catches the ball he has a possible FG% of 70%. That's an open pass with an open shot.
Now we take an OD 18 PG to it. That's your guy. His defense has such a high pressure, that this pass will decrease to 20% (just a guess, could be higher). Now the attacking PG has to decide: passing or attacking?
The game engine calculates what's better. Passing 20% success, shooting 15% success, driving 18% success. So the PG passes the ball to the C. But the pass is so bad that the C has a hard time to find a good shooting spot. His possible FG% drops to 30% because of the influence of the OD on the pass. And now there is a ID 10 C who defends this guy. His FG% will be influenced again. And as soon as he takes the shot, SB will defend him.

So you can see, that OD has already an influence on the shot. I have a player with OD+ID+SB=57 and his defensive pressure is so high, that most of the players don't shot against him. They pass the ball to another player. But his OD influences this pass heavily and as soon as someone tries to shoot my SB-squad is there to stop them.

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 12/31/2015 10:59:41 AM

So you are saying I'm going to need a bunch of OD in order for this experiment to work? By running a 3-2 wouldn't that put even more pressure on the guards forcing them to make bad passes which would result in a not so good shot making it more likely to get blocked. I really never understood how DR and PA worked in the GE.