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that's pretty much a normal thing now... if you start fresh in a country you'll have teams that are much better than you even in your division... so it will be the same for them... If the country is added to the BB countries when the number of active teams is big enough to fill up the 1. division, the new teams would be in second division and compete against similar teams... it's never easy for a new team but I don't think the difference between old and new teams would play a big role

btw, I'm all for the international league idea... way better than the current 7 active teams countries

That's why you should read all posts carefully before posting. In my second post i wrote:

You could remove a country, under two conditions. First one, if you were absolutely sure it would help bring more players to the game. And second, if you had the approval of all active players in that country. Just to make sure they are all about tactical competition and love a good challenge.

Because, I first thought of this, only for the countries not yet officially on BB. And if you are about a good challenge, you'll just learn your lessons and continue to develop your team. But as I said, in a while, things will get more balanced. And I highly doubt, the differences would be that big. That's like talking on the difference between a 4th division and a 1st division teams, which doesn't exist on a country with few users. They hardly fill one division. Until now, they've all been under the same circumstances. Or slightly but not significant differences.

Last edited by the L train at 5/19/2009 6:32:05 PM

I guess my point is that if 'beat the bots' is boring, how boring will it be to lose 110-50 6 or 8 times a season. I am not saying this makes it a bad suggestion, just one factor to look at when thinking of change.

if you now start in a small country, you will play against experienced users too and will have the 110-50 looses or wins against bot.

But with the suggestion with the international leagues, you could start in some of then with a balanced competion, mayybe you get back when they make it to a only "small country" league, but this handicap you would have in the old system too.

That's why you should read all posts carefully before posting. In my second post i wrote:

You could remove a country, under two conditions. First one, if you were absolutely sure it would help bring more players to the game. And second, if you had the approval of all active players in that country. Just to make sure they are all about tactical competition and love a good challenge.

I read the entire post, end to end. I responded to the concept. We dont see this imbalance yet in Malta or Pakistan yet, but eventually we would yes. Where did I say something that disputes your second post? I feel there is a difference between adding a new team here and there to say Japan than there is between putting 6 teams that have been playing 5 seasons in with 10 brand new teams. Sure this ends up happenening in some of the leagues that dont grow, and it was my belief that this is the problem, imbalance in the smallest countries. It is my belief that this may actually compound this particular problem. If you only want people to respond who agree with your suggestion than I apologize. Assuming I didnt read your post because I dont agree with it is nothing more than a pot shot.



Last edited by Heathcoat at 5/19/2009 7:57:18 PM

Incorrect. Japan could never be a part of this "international league". Japan has always a full league always active. I'm talking about Lebanon, Malta, Pakistan. Plus, some others that might have slipped me since I'm certain these are not the only ones. No actual difference between the teams in these countries. But, I agree with the 10 new teams argument but that isn't different from any other league and as I said, there would be a consolidation period. As there were, for all other leagues. That's why, the approval of all the teams in question would be necessary. If they don't accept it, just do it for the countries not yet official. Easy. All new teams, no problem in there. It would be just a league in it's beginning, nothing out of the ordinary there.

And in my opinion, competition leads teams to get good. Lack of competition, leads to stagnation. No need to improve your team to win, no change. And that's the true difference between any other league and these particular leagues.

Does this answer pleases you more? Because, two other people said the same to you. Instead of replying, you decided to make assumptions about my ego.

Last edited by the L train at 5/19/2009 8:28:13 PM

Not trying to be pleased just promoting discussion. Whenever I look at a new change I try to find drawbacks or problems. It is a safe bet that the benefit of a new suggestion has allready been considered, but perhaps the negative, if there is one, may not have. I used the example of Japan because I was thinking of the post a few months ago by Superfly Guy where he said something to the effect of 'I am begging for a little competition' or something similar.

I think it is a great suggestion, especially for the very active teams in the smallest countries, to help them get some good games going. My response was concerning how much it would help new players in established smaller leagues (whether country or int'l) be excited to stay and help promote growth in smaller countries, but perhaps that is not the problem you are suggesting we solve with this, or perhaps I am wrong.

Yes two people jumped on me the same as you but I dont count CrazyEye as he always disagrees with me on everything anyway :)

Not harder than I'm going to find the transition between the 3rd and the 2nd Portuguese divisions. Believe me, it's really a huge jump. So, it's really not that different from what happens now. If you look on the challenge and tactical development, you'll will be fine. If they don't accept it and want to keep a certain "monopoly" or a "beat the bots" philosophy, fine. Just make it for the new countries. Quit the "this season we will add the following countries" speech. Just open them all, put the ones with fewer users on a "international league" and everyone can enjoy the game at it's competitive best! When they are ready and proved to be truly active community, they will have a league on their own. That's all.
But those "big teams", will only be in low divisions for 3 seasons tops. Like I said, consolidation period. Like the Portuguese league had. Meanwhile, they will be earning trophies with real people. Much more gratifying than winning it from a bot. At least, the people will make their job a bit harder.

Edit: Oh! And basically, the programmer's or GM's job each new season, will be see if any of the countries meet the requirements. No more "send the petition and forget" thing. It's time to earn it and get people involved.
Besides that, just get politically informed. Which is everybody's duty, by the way. Be attentive on some situations, like Serbia and Kosovo. I wonder if someone has already asked for the country of Kosovo. Besides Serbia and Russia, everybody has recognized their independence so, no valid reason not to make it.

Last edited by the L train at 5/19/2009 8:51:35 PM

Good idea

Approved! :P

You can't use outliers in this scenario though. Superfly Guy has one of the best teams in all of BB so apart from him moving to Italy, Spain, USA etc..., he isn't going to get that much competition. It's the same for BC Tooroo in Canada. He has maybe one challenge in the whole country, yet, Canada has solid leagues with nearly 300 teams.

I used him as an example to illustrate that it isnt just frustrating to be a new player playing more established teams, but that the reverse is true as well. Yes Superfly is an extreme example, but it may take many seasons for a small country to split off on its own, and by then there could be teams in these International leagues at the level of dominance the teams you mentioned above.

And I don't find the argument you're making to be valid. Any team that comes into a league will be on the lower end of it for their first season (in most cases). If you're referring to the fact that a league might end up being composed of 8 strong, active teams and 8 weaker, newer teams that will surely be balanced out in a couple of seasons. To go even further, BBs could manually place teams into the new league so you have the strongest teams in the first division. I really don't see any problem here that a normal team starting wouldn't face.

If my argument is percieved as completely anti-this-suggestion based on what I have said then I would agree, it isnt valid under those parameters. There are many arguments we can find in these forums that are concerning this 'narrowing of the gap' idea between new teams and more established. I believe the gap gets wider, especially in these very small countries where you have firmly established champions and brand new teams both in the same series. To my thinking this is the problem that stunts growth in many cases in these countries. Zero or Negative growth is being seen in many of the smallest countries. For me the solution needed is to somehow promote growth for these small countries, and if sucessful the problem of lack of competition works itself out with that growth.

I believe it is a great suggestion, and have said so twice. I have thought much about solutions to the growth problem that are fair and effective and have not come up with anything. I suppose I was responding with that in mind and didnt see it as a solution to the growth issue, and posted to that effect.

Again, great suggestion. In lieu of a cure, a remedy is most desirable.