BuzzerBeater Forums

Hi Iwen & rabidcamel,

J-dog dropped him from the U21s prior to the 10th season and given I've had the discussion with J-dog I don't hold out any chance of a recall for him to the national U21s. His most recent posts on this forum certainly don't help.

Truth is for the last month or so because of these conversations and the feedback I received, whilst I have still been training Fallon intensively every week, my focus has been on getting pops for my other small forward who will be a champion for Portugals U21s next year.

I would hope that Fallons rating of 9.5 over 48 mins in a lesser favoured position, which don't embrace his skills of Jump range and outside defence, quell your previous comments about his scores coming over low minutes.

My concern is that even learned coaches like yourselves see scores of 7's and 8's and don't click to the fact that he has been played out of position for the last season and a half, so as to best enhance his training.

I find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't rate as well playing as a Small Forward for Australia over 8 minutes as what Darcy did - Gees he almost rated that 2 seasons ago when playing in his second worst position (point gaurd) v Brazil.

True Small forwards are hard to find, most are just shooting guards or Power Forwards.

Coaches like myself who try to train small forwards probably deserve the encouragement & opportunities that countries like Portugal provide

Sid

I wouldn't think that ratings would be that important in deciding the U21 team, more likely that the team was picked based on their skills. Can't really comment how he compares skill wise because i havn't seen his skills to compare to the current team

I'm also training my player as a SF for the U21. J-Dog has also trained a mean SF.

You really shouldn't put us coaches down about not supporting fellow Aussie trainees. These guys work their butts off trying to find the best talent available for Australia and advise coaches on how to best train them. When I came to the off site forum with my young C, they advised me to train as a SF. I took on their advice and it's getting me results.

I don't like the defeatist attitude you exude. Like we suggested, join the forum and discuss the options there. J-Dog has already stated that a SF needs to have 20+ combined in inside and outside defense. He also needs to be a passer, rebounder and shooter. If you don't want to be involved and would rather sprout drivel about our lack of support, then so be it.

And yes, I did check his games to see what positions he was played in. I can see from that you are trying really hard to train him, but the fact is, he's too far behind at his age to make the U21 team or the national team. He may become a great player for you, but that's about as far as it will go.

I could make the exact same arguments you are now with regards to this player:

Sam Clune: http://www.buzzerbeater.com/player/8158412/overview.aspx

I've played him out of position pretty much every game in the last year to give him good training. He's putting up similar ratings out of position to your guy. Salary was very similar last year, too. But he just wasn't quite good enough. It happens.

Given i have been involved in the selection discussions and scouting for both the U21 and senior NT's i can promise you that i have never once looked at player ratings. It's all about player skills not ratings.

If you are not interested in joining the offsite forum sid you are more than welcome to BB mail his stats to me and i will give you a comparison to those of the other players in both NT's so you can see where your guy is missing out.

Hi,

I am a new player here and have been reading this forum, was wondering if it would be alright if I could join in the conversation on the national teams in the offsite forum, I have joined the offsite forum, unless its adifferent one. So if you could let me know what else I need to do.

Thanks

Once you are signed up just log in and click on the board index link and then start looking the the Australian section. I was just looking at the user list and you are not registered there as mattylf so if you let me know what name you signed up as i will make sure you are registered on the site.

J-dog dropped him from the U21s prior to the 10th season and given I've had the discussion with J-dog I don't hold out any chance of a recall for him to the national U21s. His most recent posts on this forum certainly don't help.

Sid

Sid,

Its not that I dropped him from the U21NT its that he went through the scouting process where I can see his skills and then make my decisions on whether or not he should be in the team. All decisions are based off skills - not statistical performances.

I have a three to four page list with detailed information on every player. I can go back and look at that list for you when I get back from work and let you know why he didn’t make the team.

Coaches like myself who try to train small forwards probably deserve the encouragement & opportunities that countries like Portugal provide

Sid

I totally agree with you and we do provide support and encouragement, as iwen stated. There are many helpful trainers and mentors and the main goal is to create as many good players as possible for the NT to be competitive. All the arguments you have used I too can also use against C-Cat and the NT for excluding Wazza Kennerley from the NT but the arguments are invalid, instead I am part of the active community on the offsite forum, where I was able to understand why he was excluded and know on how to improve him to give Wazza the best chance to make the team.

In the U21 team we have 3 potential SF's for any given scenario, a 'Small' SF, a standard SF and a Big SF. Two of these SF's are 20 and currently are better than Fallon, the 3rd is 21 and is also better than Fallon. There was no need for Fallon to be in the team to put it bluntly. Off the top of my head there are many more players ahead of Fallon who didn't make the team. Their managers have bitten the bullet and responded positively by contacting me and gaining advice from fellow trainers to improve their player to give him the best chance possible to make the team.

I hope that this post has been a little bit more helpful than the last couple of posts but you should really go onto the offsite forum to be able to compare your players to the players in the team to give yourself a better understanding.

Actually J-Dog, I reckon I owe you an apology of sorts as you have in the past taken time to advice me on other issues.

Conversation has veered off course a little as it started off on the difference between Div 3 and Nat U21s when it comes to player rankings.

That said and perhaps you are all more experienced than me but when I look in from the outside you haven't got a real small forward in the whole team.

Darcy is a centre playing way out of position as a small forward.
Longhurst is a 188cm starter - shooting guard who is no star but does as good as can be expected as a small forward
and
Renaud looks to have potential but still looks to be more of a shooting guard and is not as yet a champion.

Visible skills don't always show the whole story.

All of my training is intensive on Fallon and Pedrosa who never seem to pop on the same week.

As Pedrosa is more likely to be playing at a National level than Fallon (based on your previous correspondance) I swap training positions when Pedrosa pops.

As a result Fallon is by my reckoning is on the verge of popping in several other positions, but this info is not visible to those who just look at skills.

The 20 skill ranking points from the combined Outside and inside defence has never been communicated to me in our previous correspondance and is certainly above what Portugal have asked for as they seem more keen on having true small forwards with more balanced spread of skills which seems to generate better results.

Good luck in the remaining games

My player which I'm training will probably be an extremely balanced SF, with over 50+ combined inside skills and hopefully 60+ outside once I'm done. They're damn hard to train because of the inside/outside element, as you know. A SF who can defend inside and outside is desired so we don't need to weaken our lineup to cater for an inside or outside offense. By the end of this season, my trainee Dell'Asta should have 25 combined inside/outside defense, then he just needs to work on his outside shooting.

Darcy is actually a SG, Darvey is the C by the way..

Firstly no need for an apology its always good to have questions raised about the standard of the team etc. It allows for the best team to be available.

And I just wanted to defend Longhurst who is actually imo a very balanced SF.

Also on the 20 plus combined defensive skills for a SF I have always been more defensive minded and that was corresponded since the speeches I partook in. In the end I need the best players for the team so these are rough guidelines just to give aussie managers an idea on what I am looking for. The best players that fit the team will make the team in the end.

On a further note I feel more and more managers are going to get disappointing if their player doesnt make the team as the Australian community is getting bigger and bigger and the talent pools are also to following that path. This means in future you may be able to train a player to the fullest and he still doesn't make the team because there will be better players. I hope that this doesn't discourage Australian trainers from training Aussie's but that is the going to be the case in the future. For example atm there are alot of big men been trained and I had to leave out some very good big men out of the team that in previous years would have made the team for example bay overton.

I hope in future we don't end up like Italy or Spain where it takes luck, money and a farm team program to be able to cater for the best players Australia can create, instead be able to have everyone from all divisions be able to contribute to the Australian cause.

Cheers