BuzzerBeater Forums

I'm not really opposed to Utopia as a name per se, but I can see why people react to it the way they do.

For those who are believing in the fantasy of the game, the nations of BB ACTUALLY represent the real world nations, the users are supposedly from those nations. Like a real world cup or FIBA tourney etc. its pitting players (managers) of different nations against each other. Nevermind its based arbitrarily on IP address and nevermind that in the real world people play for their nation of nationality NOT the nation they live in....(like how many of the micronations are not actually representing managers of those nationalities but rather x-pats of English speaking countries. Or like how many of USAs most active managers just live there and are of other nationalities...)

Imagine if FIBA made a Utopia team and filled it with a hodpodge of players from all over the world, such that it looked like the spurs of the past decade or so.

Personally I don't like the whole nationalities in BB to begin with. I think its fake and stupid. Nobody signs a contract at sign-up guaranteeing their nationality, identity, allegiance etc. etc.... Its all make-believe no matter what. I think they should have one massive structure of leagues, period. Or break it up by languages, regions and time zones. They could have like French, Italian, German, Russian, Chinese, Spanish-Europe time zone, Spanish-Americas time zone, Portuguese, and a bunch of English for different time-zones. Or something. The nation thing is lopsided, unbalanced in the regions, plagued by constant cheating and so on. We only have 30k users now, IMO that really is only enough for about 10~30 full nations. They could get away with 50 or so, especially if they have hopes of getting back up to 30k users or so...but with the current rate of decline...BB might have around 10k users in 2 years...

At that point it should be like 10 'associations' (not nations) which represent the major languages and time zones.

As far as NTs, if they really want to do that, they should have it all based on LA work and let people pick their team flag from supported nations. In that case they would just need one dedicated LA for any nation/language group they wanted to offer for BB. The LA translates the manual, creates name database, then they could be granted the ability to have their team of that nation, players drafted, an NT, a cup etc.

That is just how I see it though.

I can see not liking the 'Utopia' idea but why do you want only a 2nd team for only home nation/nation of residence. This I do not understand.

I am an Australian, living in Japan. If you "don't understand", my *guess* would be you've never lived abroad.

Where would the NBA be if players like Gasol, Duncan, Batum, Ginobli, etc. etc. never wanted to play ball outside their nation? Where would the entire world of basketball be if American Bball coaches (like Kobe Bryants dad) were not interested in running teams in other nations?

As soon as someone starts making real world comparisons here, they lose me. This *isn't* remotely like the real world, there's no single nation that's the quintessential place-to-be if you're a basketball player.

I honestly think if they change it to something like BB International or something like that and it stands as a league which represents an internation organization, not some fantasy country, people will be more receptive to it.

People have significantly different reasons for wanting to make a second team. For some, it's a chance to play from scratch in the nation in which they dwell. For others, it's a way to re-connect to a nation they feel they have a connection with (like me). For others, perhaps they want to play in a smaller nation, and enjoy a more rapid climb (I have to say: it's a bit overrated!). For still yet others: the reverse holds true: coming from a micro-nation - they want to put their team in a developed, large nation and see if they can make good there.
All of these are completely legitimate reasons for wanting to have a second team, and all of them were removed by a very short-sighted policy decision from the BBs when instituting this.
Very disappointed.

All of these are completely legitimate reasons for wanting to have a second team, and all of them were removed by a very short-sighted policy decision from the BBs when instituting this.

And a wole other lot were against second teams allowed in existing country.

I was for opening the borders, but it's important to not forget there was many people against it too. The decision is not coming from nowhere.

Fair enough. I do predict that this won't have the success/amount of users that were initially predicted. I was a sure-fire bet to take part in this. Now I have zero interest (and I know of others in the same frame of mind).
And the users I described would not be a negative addition to ANY nation, rather the opposite. All a moot point now - as the decision's been made.

I WOULD suggest that the post in the *News* should be a bit more emphatic as to you can only play in Utopia. Merely stating that 2nd teams are "...guaranteed a place in the exciting new "Utopia" league starting next season..." doesn't have the clarity that's necessary for this. It should be phrased along the lines of "2nd teams can ONLY play in Utopia". Leave no confusion about it.

Last edited by malice at 3/8/2014 10:08:22 AM

I have lived abroad and I don't understand what the big deal is. Please educate me. If you are living abroad, the inference I make is that you are most likely a fairly open-minded person with a cosmopolitan flair. I would "guess" that someone like that would have little problem mixing with a global gathering of coaches.

You're missing the point entirely (well... of "my particular point" to be fair).
I'm not interested in doing more of what I do on a daily basis - I am interested in taking part in the Australian league due to several considerations. 1/ it is the land of my birth, and somewhere that I haven't lived for quite some time. 2/ It's a big, developed nation that's got a strong user base - and I would have encountered places/names of familiar places... have partaken in conversations that are indelibly *Strayan*. There would have been a very strong element of 懐かしい (nostalgia) to the experience... and that's not something Utopia will ever offer.

Last edited by malice at 3/8/2014 10:18:58 AM

No one complained when, in season three, they added 44 countries, one of which was Poland, the third largest
country in BB.
On a macro-level, very few of the 29526 managers playing the game will notice or be adversely affected by this move. Those who are negatively affected will be roughly the same in number as those who enjoy a positive effect from the change. If you agree with this supposition, then it is difficult to argue against the change. Like hrudey says, if you are not into the idea, don't get involved.

I have never lived abroad? LOL Boy if that were true life would be easier...but boring...

I see you want the 2nd team to reconnect with your homeland...hmmm... I see this whole fantasy about the nation/community in BB representing the realworld nation, yet you want to throw out the idea of comparing BB with the real world...which is it?

If you join up to Australia, because you want to connect with Australia...what if there were 1 Auzzie to every 10 foreigners. What if you landed in a league of 16 teams, that like Japan, didn't have any natives and everyone spoke Chinese, or Polish in the forums? Would you be happy to have that team with the Australian flag, if it was just a picture that meant nothing?

What if all they wanted to do was talk about crocodiles and Fosters beer and knew jack-all about actual Australian culture?

So you can't have your cake and eat it to. The BBs can't let you sign up for a 2nd team in a nation that you don't live and actually give any kind of guarantee whatsoever that the people playing in that league, voting on the NT, training players of that nationality etc. are actually from that nation, speak the language etc.. You'll connect with having the flag stamped on the team and players and that is it.

With a large enough nation and volunteers to analyze carefully every application they could try to establish some rules or guidelines for each nation to try to make sure people have a legit reason/connection to whatever place they want to play in. I am actually for something like this...but its more work, more rules, more complications. My understanding is the BBs want as little case-by-case as possible. They want blanket rules that can be applied easily to everyone as transparently as possible. They don't hardly have to manpower to dev let alone do customer service. Their biggest workforce...is all volunteers...which also represents their biggest customer base, whom they don't charge or collect any money from in lew of the free labor...

How would they decide who can play in Japan, for example. most of the people already playing there aren't Japanese and many don't speak Japanese fluently. Those who do hardly ever bother using Japanese, NTs, forums...you guys talk all in English. You have had some users playing there that don't even speak English OR Japanese fluently. What grounds could you deny any new applicant from any corner of the world? And what meaning for any native Japanese would having the Japan flag and leagues have then? (has little now as it is)

I get the calling the new place for 2nd teams 'Utopia' has its issues. But letting people cross borders for a fee...kinda also amounts to letting people for free if you think about it. If you are gonna let people invade a country if they pay for it, what is the justification for not letting them sign up initially, for the free team, wherever they want?

Also, this new Utopia (I hope they don't call it that actually) will only be entered if you pay. I love this. I have always wanted to not play against free teams. I guarantee you the competition level will be completely different, the activity, the forums etc. etc. will be completely different. I can't wait.

If it was just another team in another nation. Like the famous Chinese NT world champ/b3 champ player that was trained in Pakistan....people don't need to pay money to have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 20th team. So they would be asking people to pay for something they already steal (weren't suppose to have). This Utopia thing truly creates a product people can only pay for. That is a very smart move IMO.

This makes a certain amount of sense.
However, surely you are aware of the all Australian private league that has been around for many seasons, and I imagine that the overlords of that league would allow you entrance if you were to drop a few "mozzies down at Skenes Creek" or Bogues beer references. And, if that league is defunct, you could begin a new one. What's more, you are not blocked from participating in the Australian forums because you play in Japan. Both of those ideas could help you reconnect with the nostalgia of your days in Australia.

Anyway, your point is taken and I am not trying to argue. For various reasons, I have followed Japan's league for a while and you
seem like an interested and engaged participant in this silly game. Too bad you don't like the idea, because Uluru would be a better league if you joined.


Last edited by Rovan at 3/8/2014 11:28:46 AM

They don't have to call it Utopia= my point.

I've seen the complaint about calling the 99th country Utopia several times and I always wonder why what it's called matters to a anyone. They could call it "Gary Busey's Teeth" or "pants off dance off!"and it would make zero difference in actual gameplay or how the new country is set up.

I guess I'll start a poll on webcast the new country skills be named.

Pants off dance off would be a horrible idea - I don't know about you, but there's no way I ever want to see the low post in pants off dance off!