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Micronations abso-effin'-lutely is not the answer. Nations that exist, for the most part, have their own identity. To squash them and insist that they put that identity away would actually lose more users than it would save. I am involved in two nations that may/may not fit in that category: Japan (a lil' bigger than 'micro'?), and Wales (U21 coach). Bad idea.

As fishy pointed out: winning is key in early days. If someone has success at an early stage, they will be more vested about promoting, and eager to learn how to succeed in the division above. I know the Hattrick analogy isn't usually appreciated here, but that's exactly what happened to me there. I started in a largely bot-div (3-then-2 human users), and had success early on - and did what I needed to do to get to the division above. Now, I'm not going to have the same success, but I am more vested in my team. If I had started in a strong division, I doubt I would have been as vested in my team as I am now.

This is a simple fix. Yet the implications of it are pretty far-reaching. I have no idea why it hasn't been implemented. Well... yes, I do know. It's simply not a priority for what's become pretty much a skeleton operation.

1) Playing against BOT teams will not be exiting for the user.

wrong

losing by 80 each game would make me think stupid game

winning by 10-20 most games would make me think great game & i am really smart

winning is a lot more fun that losing and at most it will be 4 a fraction of a season then u play humans once u have learnt a bit

Not relevant or related to what I've wrote.
Winning those BOT teams EASILY (and that will be what will happen), will cause that user not to enjoy the game.
It is a fact that users prefer playing other users, and not just BOT teams. This is something that is just an axiom.

2) After a single season those teams will be promoted to the same II division, and will suffer from the same things, and thus... leave.

wrong

there r 4 d2s in each nation so which 1 they go to is random & they will be scattered & have a much easier time

Again, there is no connection to reality and what had been discussed here.
Let's take Japan for an example.
Now that few who join the game will start at the third division, and on the next season will get to oneof those second division which contain teams that are much stronger than them.
They will be beaten easily (like they are now beaten and leave the game).

In case there is only one strong division-2, and the others are one that can be competed with than it is true also now, and it has nothing to do with this Div-III nonsense.
And if we will continue with that, they will still have a great difference with the other teams on that division, or they will get to the first division and see the same huge difference their.

The result? The same as now - they will leave the game after very few season(s)...

3) Each team value (Roster's value, Arena cost, etc.) is something that grows over time.
Hence, a user who will join the game to a league who consists old teams will feel he just can't compete (no salary cap), and hence will leave the game.

wrong

that is the whole point of starting in d3

but lots of old teams go through changes too

ww arent talking spain or italy that is bs, its small nations where there is a high turnover because of problems like this

of 16 abbl teams last season 2 are now in 2d at salary floor training & rebuilding from scratch

there is also an abbl bot

God knows what had been the point here...

4) Demotion and promotion does not prove the salary cap will not work.

wrong

wolph has already shown u how a salary cap would make no difference with the rich teams getting 5 killer balanced forwards, big men with really high passing, guards with crazy shot blocking etc all the things that are free on salary but make players better

This is just nonsense, and a really poor try to lie to all others.
In case he can do it, why doesn't he do it now???
Or because he just can't!!!
Or because it will make is team a little bit less strong. [And that is the purpose of a salary cap - making the competitiveness better].

really a lot of high salary teams r stupid & waste money when they could have better cheaper players, a salary cap would force them to do that & do nothing 2 change league balance, the rich can always buy the best players

In case there is any truth in that, the poorer could do the same, and there are (at least) as much poor teams who "waste money when they could have better cheaper players".
The only thing that will change will be the roster value difference who will be lesser.

it is such a simple change for the bbs, 1 line of code changed from "start new teams in 2/1" to "start new teams in 3/1"
every1 except u can see it makes sense

Who is "everyone"?
This is a suggestion to fix a hard-illness with a cup of tea.
It is ridiculous and it is being raised, because it "cost" none to the one who suggest it.
The opposite of the salary cap (for example), which is the right prescription to this illness.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 3/9/2012 3:16:04 PM

In my first season here on BB i did no tknow what team was a bot team and what team that had a human manager. And i think the joy of actually winning games was bigger then anything else. If i were to end up in a league with a lot of strong teams with no chance of winning more then 1-2 games in a season i think i would have given up after not to long.
The ones stuck in the D.2 in japan wont actually see any benefits from this suggestion to more then the possibility of a larger community.

You did not answer anything that had been brought.
1) The BOT teams are just awful, and one will win them easily and without any match, and hence will not enjoy it.
2) After a single season he will get to the same division that he would be playing w/o this suggestion - divisions 2.
There, he will find the same competitiveness problem and (as currently happens) will leave the game.

1) And in the same way that bots are awfully bad the teams in D.2 are awfully good compared to what you get when you start. And winning is always more fun then losing. No matter how bad the competition is. When one does not know better one will enjoy beating bot teams.

An easy game is something that no one will play.
A too hard game is something that will get some tryouts, because beating a hard game is fun.
But, an impossible game (due to luck of competitiveness) is something that will not grow - as happens to this game, who is stuck on 50K users, although very good features it has.

2) After that first season they will have a somewhat higher spirit from bashing bots all season long and has gotten attached to the game a bit more and maybe then wont see losses as such a hopeless thing. They may have invested enough time in the game so that they have gotten hooked and will stay and see their team grow.

They will get into a wall, and understand that there is no chance crossing it. The same as it happens now.

There is also 4 D.2 leagues so the competition in the different leagues will be more even then it is today.

Not relevant, as spreading the new users between all 4 D-2 leagues is something that can be done today w/o all the other not-relevant suggestion of using D-3 division.
Again - the spreading suggestion as nothing to do with the Div-3 suggestion.
The only connection between them is that they will not change a thing about the community size at those micro-nations.
In addition - in case they get even, they will still find that each season there are a bunch of users that are much stronger due to long time at this game where they kept piling up assets, and they will... leave the game.
This has proofs - In case it was not the case, other nation, that are not micro-nations, would have grown and not just kept their size or even get smaller.

I dont know where this "new teams start in Div III"-idea comes from, I believe I made the first suggestion that proposed to put new teams in the lowest possible league, in small countries this would mean Div V or maybe IV.

That would give teams in Austria (starting in Div V), at least one full season of bot-bashing, before playing against few human teams while still having a couple of bots in the league.

When I started the game I was going up and down between Div II, where I got slaughtered and Div III, where I had happy times of easy training and winning easily. Those easy seasons definitely saved me from quitting. Even if you have the "bonus" of starting in a higher league, it takes you at least three full seasons to develop stadium and roster to close the gap and turn your swag on.

I dont know where this "new teams start in Div III"-idea comes from, I believe I made the first suggestion that proposed to put new teams in the lowest possible league, in small countries this would mean Div V or maybe IV.

That would give teams in Austria (starting in Div V), at least one full season of bot-bashing, before playing against few human teams while still having a couple of bots in the league.

When I started the game I was going up and down between Div II, where I got slaughtered and Div III, where I had happy times of easy training and winning easily. Those easy seasons definitely saved me from quitting. Even if you have the "bonus" of starting in a higher league, it takes you at least three full seasons to develop stadium and roster to close the gap and turn your swag on.

Let's make it simple - in which division (upon current status) will Japan new users will start from?