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Since EPK is no longer with us, I think, I will reply to everyone whom this question may concern.

With that in mind, are we not clearly explaining things (communicating) to the managers that are newer or new to the U21/NT scene? How will the remaining candidates address issues such as this? This is a manager that has been around on the off-site since S26.

I think sometimes we just PM the person of what type of player to build, and not the exact skillset that is needed for that build, as said.

With the newer group who doesn't necessarily use the offsite, I'll make sure the the scouts know what kind of options that trainer can use (that are realistic enough to do in order to either make the U21 team or meet their own club's expectations) and as we all do best, scout and give the manager's the best advice possible. I think our mentoring skills had taken a bit of a step back from previous years, as I know everyone is still trying to find the best way to get around with the finances they have in stock. But, with that in mind, this scouting program that I keep bringing up will enhance communication a lot with the trainers at hand.

I'll be gladly working with you if that means better NT players going forward.

In fact, we already have started doing this, with developing our own group for 18 Year Olds called 18 HOF. These HOFs, some of them are already put on the NT track, while others are going the U21 route. Every one of these players getting set for the NT path helps the NT in the future greatly. There are many options for U21, however those are strictly shorted for NT since you need HOF pot. at least on some of these players. So, I'd be gladly sacrificing a few of our best guys to be on the NT. It means greater chances of golds.

Towards the 2nd question, I would think it would be more of a coach--coach conversation since you are also a good evaluator of talent. I would probably want to bring in a few faces of the community, preferably experienced scouts so to speak. However, if this player is greatly talked about, I would hold a discussion for that player in a certain file. I mean Cliff Duncan was great and could've easily been one of our best U21 guards ever. He is being built on a semi NT route and still made the team EASILY. it all depends on the player and the people involved i think.

It's my understanding that this season's 21 year old class, especially the big men, is pretty weak. We talk a lot about long term strategies to make future classes better, but in the short term, how will you work around the relatively poor players you have at your disposal? Would you be opposed to calling up 20 year olds or players with less potential?

Lastly, what is something on your hypothetical BB Résumé that you feel separates you from the other candidates? Also what is a new strategy or something you would implement that goes against the norm or is different from past U21 managers?

2) I think we will find a way to help combat our poor class of big men this season. One of the alternative is looking into our 20 year olds of course, and seeing if they have what it takes to play for USA later in the season. Looking into lower potential players is a definite. I feel that the U21 isn't all about potential 100% of the time. In the real game there are no MVP and HOF. There is skill and skill. The better skill wins based on numbers, tactics, and more numbers like gameshape, GDP, and enthusiasm. Skill numbers mean more than potential in the U21 game, as long as a star has the ability to = a MVP. However that cannot be said about NT at all.

3) I think on the resume that separates me from other U21 managers is my activity. Sure, I can be looked at as a BB Rat but I can get a lot of work done, as seen in last season's domestic scouting, where I came in and got everyone a list...sure it took me time but I got it done and I took the initiative to get it done. I think activity is huge when being a coach. What I would implement? It's already in the process of being implemented with the help of various people. By Sunday night or Monday morning u should be able to see it.

Last edited by tough at 2/21/2016 12:30:42 AM

but more that those two attributes were the cornerstone of what you would consider on the u21 team.

My corner stone is based on scoring and defense. Example: for a guard you would train 1v1f and OD, heavily .

A player with those builds with 7 OD, 7 PA, and 7 JS would not work

You don't seriously think I'm suggesting we use a build based upon 7 OD? That's preposterous.

The argument was simply that a more standard PG would still have to be in place (16-17 OD, 13-14 PA) and such a player is unlikely to have the desired DR/HA/IS to fit your build (JS being indfferent between the two).

My builds have performed well at the highest level (Trainees: Meek, Isom, Kearney), there's no reason it couldn't work at the U21 lvl. Passing will still be around at the guard position, just less of it -- primary focus being 1v1f/defense.

Ok if you want an entire 1 on 1 interpretation, here you go:

First I would say: That's a nice prospect you got right that man, nice luck! You have any specific plans to train him?

***This is where I would bring in if he wants to help the U21 first or his team first. Perhaps Both. However, with the build he has, his shot at U21 comes through heavy big man skill training, inflating his salary. If it were me, I would go and do this:

~I would probably suggest that you train him for the NT _____. That way his salary doesn't go through the roof, he is very affordable for your team, and you will have a great well rounded player.

***Now this is where I ask the guy what he want his player to be the most of (defensive big, all round big, scoring machine, etc.) And give him the layouts for each of the builds. Now this isn't the optimal way of doing it as I'm rushing to get numbers but it'd be somewhere around this:
Defensive Big: 6/3/9/10/10/12--14/19/15/16. (I would have to live with the fact that his OD isn't gonna get more than 6 pops, OD training on a 6'11'' guy is very painful, I've experienced 1 and a half season of OD training on Vinson to get him from 5 OD to 12 OD. I would also live to the fact that his DR and HA are too low to make him elite at it. But I would make him good enough to make it work and not have him mishandle the ball and give lots of TOs. With PA being 5, you can probably get that up to 12 rather easier than it is to get to 12 OD, and you want to make him an elite passer so he can give the ball to other players, since he well is a defensive big man.)

All Round Big: 11/4/8/11/11/14--18/18/15/12 This would be almost a season's worth full TSP ahead of the defensive build. This is by far the toughest one for this type of player due to his low OD HA DR JR. He has good enough inside skills to make it for it but the outside training will hold him back a bit. We would have to live with him not being a 125+ TSP behemoth because he probably doesn't have the cash to put it on a lvl 7 trainer. Which is perfectly fine. We want to make the best player for him as well with also not killing his finances. This build has more scoring but less ID and RB and SB than build one. Would probably mean furthest you can get him, again UNLESS he has that dough for a lvl 7.

Scoring big: 13/5/7/10/10/8--19/17/15/12 This big can score more than either 2, which is why I lowered the PA a bit and the OD some as well. You would probably want a bit more JR in order to hit 3s at a consistent good rate but that probably won't happen with his 3 JR. his 13 JS should make up for that. Maybe too much JS? Not sure but the more the better imo for me. He would be able to hit jumpers and inside shots at a nice clip in the top competition.

By all means i would want the player to keep him, as he could be his franchise player. And I would strongly advise he would do the secondaries skills first, that way he can get those over with fast, and I would stress to him that the older he gets, the slower he would train in those outside skills; train them now and you won't have to worry about it later.

I think options 2 and 3 are the strongest to make him considerable for the NT while build 1 is more unorthodox.

A way to get ahead of the curve in training? There isn't really no right or wrong answer to that, but I can answer that the best that I can.

You have to be able to get managers on board. More players you have more depth you will have overall. 2 95 TSP players will beat 1 95 and 2 85s any day of the week (Of course, this is if their builds are of similar mold and the right conditions are met/tactics, etc) The team is only as strong as it's weakest player so to speak. You have to get what i call "training success" rates up and lower the player mortality rate as well. If the class lacks those 55+ TSP monsters, do best with the 50s and 48s, as they can also be successful U21 team members. Look into the allstars as well, as some with the right training can be considered for a spot. That's the only real answer I can give besides "Hey, let's make a all JR team!" or "Let's focus on a LOT of SB" (I'm not saying no to those builds or even ignoring them/putting them down, but you do need to mix in the old generation and new generation mix of players in order to make it work. I would like to have a couple JR dudes and SB guys on the team in the near future)

2nd question, I will say that I don't have historical data or any info to back it up, being honest--i really don't. I will admit numbers is a thing I must work on to improve greatly if I were to become the coach (game plan numbers being #1 thing I will work on) But I will say that PA on a big man is very helpful in any offense. I can tell you that based on my numerous experiences of training big men...most recently Jerry Vinson. If you want some more analysis you can BB Mail me and I will gladly take the time to point out a few of his games/numbers if you want to. I just don't have the clear cut numbers at the moment.

FurYak started his post by saying

"I don't know that i was implying that your builds only had those two attributes"

just saying, it's hard to have any other attributes but those two if you had 7 OD, 7 PA, and 7 JS. That was my "you're not going this low" example. But oh well.


Last edited by FurY at 2/21/2016 2:20:39 AM

I keep hearing managers speak of these inside training methods I've suggested as if the only thing I am focusing on is high IS and DV -- thus hindering our outside game and /or defense. Absolutely not, training 1v1f would allow us to create offensively versatile prospects with high JS/IS/HN/DV -- all the scoring one would need; while at the same time, also being able to switch back and forth from offense to defense. That is an incredibly quick and efficient way to stack both defense and offense -- which, with the little time we have to train U21 prospects, that's huge.

Trust me, they will come around with with time. I think one thing people dont quite understand is the power of DR on all offenses, which your builds have. As a NT coach I understand your training 100%. Training is about getting the most possible skill pops you can, and you can achieve this through the 1v1 training.

i feel this is not this case, simply a player search returns 80 results of atleast 17/17 HA/DR
while a search of 17+ SBers brings 0 results and JR brings 3, I think that HD/DR and its effects are well documented and can be seen in players around the world. What I dont think has been researched effectively is SB as very few people train it.
JR and its effects have been somewhat experimented with but for the most part still largely unknown. Im not denying the effects of DR and HA or IS or JS or any other skill. All I want to know is that whoever is leading the nation teams of this country are not stuck in one way of thinking. Of course JS/IS/HA/DR/OD/ID helps you win, But when its largely all that is available for player builds, how do we truly know a player with 16ID/18SB/16OD doesnt shut down a guy with 18JS/18DR/18HA/18IS?? Until someone does it noone will think otherwise. But its easy to see the main build in this game is the one adub is preaching. Im not discrediting his results with it, Im just saying that we should fully explore all alternatives before committing to a singular build.

Well, I know as for myself, I have personally trained and seen the effects of both JR and SB, so I am not necessarily saying those skills arent important. In fact, a while back I was preaching SB before anyone else and I was basically ignored because I didn't have large enough sample sizes to support my claims. However, with all of that being said, it comes down to the most effective ways for training.

At the U21 level it is most likely quicker to have effective builds simply with the 1v1 training method. If you are talking about a NT player then I wouldbsay yes pleaae for the SB and JR, U21 not so much. In my opinion though, we do need to test more of those playwrs you speak of at the U21 level, but we also dont need a lot of those players being trained in case it doesnt work out. Maybe have a couple owners train these unique builds to test out when they are 21yo with the promise to get some playing time. If it works out then we can focus on training more.

Thank you. This is what I have been trying to say [just not nearly as eloquently]. SB has shown in its limited use to combat IS far better than ID [although ID and maybe OD is needed to get into position to challenge an IS].

I have seen enough sims to know that SB challenges outside shots too. I have relatively high SB wings that regularly swat three point attempts. Along with that they challenge driving attempts as well.

I'm not saying that OD/ID/SB builds are the best, I'm saying that having a couple on the roster to counter all the inside guards you're going to see might helpful. And on a club level guards [particularly SGs] built that way could be far more valuable to build than combo and inside guards.