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It was brought up in response to a different person discussing micro-nations. You're the one who specifically mentioned Utopia. That original post I responded to was largely off-topic but I figured I'd offer a reply because the manager seemed to have good intentions and was offering his opinion in a constructive manner.

Perpete's comments in this thread are the epitome of unconstructiveness, unhelpfulness and negativity. So much for 'bias'ed people (looks like this word is trending among the BB staff, good going).

I don't understand what the problem is in changing the 2nd team policy to make it more flexible, even considered nobody ever voted for utopia and Marin initial posts (where the poll was) seemed to hint more to a 2nd team in a country of choice rather than Utopia. It has always been seen as a possibility and probably even a preferable option. It would be good for both you and Perpete to refresh your memory here (254079.1) and here (254079.2). Also, if you have any other ideas on how to improve the situation for micronations, we're listening. You could make good ole Wolph a happy bunny this Easter.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/21/2016 4:17:06 PM

Looking forward to it!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/21/2016 6:48:26 AM

Also, if you have any other ideas on how to improve the situation for micronations, we're listening.

Stay tuned.

I hope some reasonable measures will be found. Any progress in this area should be good.

On the other hand knowing BB and the tendency to always choose the worst compromise, I don't expect too much. Will eat crow though, if some revolutionary soltution is found.

True, but I can count five times in your post that you were needlessly sarcastic and/or negative.

When the staff stop being needlessly sarcastic I'll consider it myself. Though I'm afriad my attempts to amuse myself do sometimes overwhelm my attempts. As for negativity, well sometimes that creeps into a disagreement. I apologise if I went too far.

If you believe that there's probably not much I can do to change your mind. However, you were being negative and hostile. This entire conversation unfolded because you made a needlessly sarcastic comment about a change that was made over two years ago, and at best it was only loosely on topic as you took a small message about micro-nations and turned it into a shot against Utopia.

It was in response to your comment about BBs consulting users, which you did with Utopia, not specifically the micro nation issue, with which I agree its not linked at all. So I disagree strongly with you saying its tenuous.

I believe that, but I don't agree that posting snide and sarcastic remarks accomplishes anything other than a negative atmosphere. Sure, it can show your displeasure with a certain issue, but it's not constructive. Other than perhaps a sense of self-satisfaction there's nothing to be gained by it. It only creates animosity and ill will.

Again, its difficult when dealing with snide and sarcastic comments from staff not to reply in kind, especially when that is a common thread with certain people. Until staff stop it, you can't really expect anything less from users. Your again using my clear dislike of Utopia to cloud the issue. I repeat that Utopia points to what I feel about BBs attempts to consult the user base. I accept we don't agree about it, but if you're going to repeat your assertions, then you can't really ask me not to.

Nothing I have said here has given me a sense of self satisfaction. You don't have any reason to say that, and no evidence to point to what I feel. When you say things like that all you do is create animosity and ill will. (Yes, that's sarcastic, but its a response to what I feel is a direct insult so I don't really care.)

I'm not really willing to spend any more time arguing over tiny details of my post, while the larger issues at hand are ignored. Again, I think its common for the staff to involve users in arguing over who said what and why, in an attempt to cloud or even directly ignore the point of a post or thread.

I didn't even want to post this, I've already said what I think, you've said you disagree, but frankly I feel rather insulted.

When the staff stop being needlessly sarcastic I'll consider it myself...

Again, its difficult when dealing with snide and sarcastic comments from staff not to reply in kind, especially when that is a common thread with certain people. Until staff stop it, you can't really expect anything less from users.

I think its common for the staff to involve users in arguing over who said what and why, in an attempt to cloud or even directly ignore the point of a post or thread.

+100 ! Well said, GullyFoyle, and I applaud your courage at speaking out.

I hope Marin sees this and takes it to heart, because he's the only one with the power to clean up the forum behavior of some of his people.

I attempted to respond to this but unfortunately my irritation led me to take so long I was logged out. I should take that as a hint but the truth is I don't think I can leave this alone.

While this discussion seems to be winding down, I will also post once more in an effort to further clear the air.

If you really think what follows is clearing the air, I'd hate to see what you would have said to fan the flames.

I wasn't trying to imply that you specifically felt that way, rather that self-satisfaction is potentially the only positive (if you can call it that) effect someone is going to get out of posting snide or sarcastic remarks.

Surely you can see that if I was insulted by what you said before, repeating it is going to make me feel insulted again?

You're not wrong that certain staff members sometimes make unflattering posts, and I'm not excusing them when they do happen, but I think it's important to keep in mind that those guys (and girls) have dedicated a lot of time and effort into this game. They can become flustered and frustrated when they receive unconstructive criticism, and in turn, lash out with negatives comments of their own. It's an ugly cycle.

You say you won't excuse the staff, but then not only do you excuse them, you go on to blame the users, presumably including me, for the staff's behaviour.

We're now so far off the topic as to be ridiculous, not just the topic of the thread but of my post and yours that I referred to. In the hope of both of us not looking more riduculous lets stop arguing about sarcasm and its potential usefullness.

I've run as afoul as any others I would say in these forums and I really think that people are EXTREMELY unfair with the staff.

EXTREMELY unfair.

Lets agree to disagree here.

.I assure you from my Utopia experience that by playing in England the way you do/have you have never played buzzerbeater the way it is for an Italian (as an example)...>

Let's agree to disagree. D2 in England was easier at the bottom (to not relegate), but D2 in England was also a lot tougher (the top 4-5 teams in either conference) than any D2 season I've had so far in Utopia. I have yet to see a single team breaking 155-160 BB-Stats in D2 Utopia, while I've seen that done by multiple teams in England every season. In Utopia most teams get by with 110-120ish BB-Stats which is underwhelming and a lot of top teams don't break 140. Because of this, it would be a lot easier to buy a promotion in D2 Utopia than it has ever been in D2 England (well maybe not nowadays, considering the state of the Transfer List).

One reason I think the staff are getting attacked so much in the forums lately is that I think with all the issues and problems that went on for so long the more reasonable users have by-in-large quit the game. Sayonara they went...

I think users are frustrated that nothing is being done to address legitimate long-term concerns and the staff gets easily frustrated when someone brings up the same issue another time. Ultimately, if you are asking not to blame the staff reacting with frustration, then you should do the same for the users, shouldn't you? You don't have to go that far to see someone opening a new thread and 2-3 GMs immediately jumping at him and writing most of the initial comments.

I agree that Ryan seems to be a reasonable and fairly amicable person, but let's not pretend they are all like him.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/29/2016 1:46:57 PM