BuzzerBeater Forums

DT on BB > or < than dealing Coke...mmmm

Now come on... we are talking about a minority of players who were heavily speculating on player prices in a very volatile market.....and you have yet to concede that there are risks taken....

I prefer the analagy of investing into emerging markets... Brazil, India, China etc Everyone with a decent size portfolio probably has exposure to them in some shape or form... the average Joe sees, reads and wants to get involved when the economies are bullish but doesnt... not because he cant because he is afraid. He sees the double digit returns but cant bring himself to modify his portfolio. Now any financial advisor would forewarn him against doing it with his whole portfolio as if it blows up he has nothing. So in BB terms where we all start with the same money to risk your whole roster/money/results/fan attendence is pretty ballsy and although it is an irrational decision it is a decision where the rewards justify the risk.

You and others morally or not have actually just not been prepared to take the risk and think any old manager can do it. Well i'd be willing to bet that alot of the recent Bot teams started - werent too chuffed with their starting roster and then decided to have a go at DT... and then there team got into even more financial difficulties then they gave up.

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing and instead of praising you are simply jumping on the it isnt fair bandwagon and taking the higher moral ground of saying how you could never be drawn into such a thing. Is it fair that alot of teams start and give up too easily or lose interest?

Lord of Doom and to a lesser extent myself have openly admitted that its not what we set out to do and we have not set out to try and justify our approach... simply pointing out (and i think he raised a couple of very valid points..) that there are more than the 'you' and 'us' camps.

If you are emotionally attached to your stocks/funds/investments then sadly you will normally underperform the market. I like the majority of my players - sure. But if someone wants to offer me 200k more than i paid - am i going to take it? In most cases yes. You cannot even start to try to figure out the reasoning behind why someone will pay more. If that manager isnt cheating by dumping money that is simply his perceived value of a player. If you arent prepared to list yours for the reasons above or because you are afraid you cant find a suitable replacement then that is you being scared of the underlying potential inflation in the market.

One of the first HT threads i read was this is a money game BASED on football. BB in my eyes is an Economy game admittedly more heavily BASED on Basketball. For a lover of football and sports and being impartial about BB I think this game has the potential to be more addictive than HT - but lets not hide behind the fact this is a young game and everyone cant make the same decisions about the good of their team.

I don't know why everyone insists on over-complicating the issue.

There are 2 issues:

1). Realism
-as a simulator I assume that the game wants to be as close as possible to being realistic. Day Trading is not even close to being a realistic element of professional basketball.

2). Competition
-there are a million and one games on the internet that are dominated by those who are the most active. Since this is supposed to be considered a strategy game a player should be able to succeed with normal activity levels as long as he has sound strategy. While I concede that DT is sound strategy it eliminates any other strategy from effectiveness and means that once again only the people with the most available time can compete. If this is fine with the developers than so be it, but I have been involved in other games that were largely abandoned (except for the hyper active element) over similar issues.

As I have stated before...I am waiting to see if I will have a fair chance at competing in this game, or if it is simply going to be automatically dominated by those who have the most time, before I become a supporter, and this is a key issue, if not THE key issue. If I lose because people ran a better team then me, fine, but I don't want to automatically be a low division team because I cannot Day Trade and there is no other tactic as effective.

IF THIS S INDEED A MONEY GAME SIMPLY BASED AROUND BASKETBALL THEN PLEASE LET ME KNOW ASAP SO I CAN FIND A DIFFERENT GAME. I want a game that takes all factors into account, not just who can raise the most money. Hell the Knicks are still the most valuable franchise in the NBA, but who would want to be them right now?

True enough I suppose lol, but I bet you would still rather be with a different team.

This is an excellent post, I think, especially the last paragraph.

If this game is going to evolve into a game of buying and selling players like commodities, then I hope it fails.

If it is going to be about training hoopers and setting a smart gameplan, then it will be my favorite game, because I know a lot about hoop and have loved it my whole life.

I am already a SUPPORTER because an internet game about hoops is something I will enthusiastically support, but if it collapses into a game where the haves buy their trophies and the havenots quit, then consider me a one-and-done member.

Edited by somdetsfinest (12/19/2007 9:35:52 AM CET)

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 12/19/2007 9:35:52 AM

well then the next step is to place a limit on the amount of transfers per season....maybe starting with an amount so people can juggle their opening squad and then after 1 season reducing further to a sensible annual amount

surely this can be imposed pretty quickly and that will surely satisfy the masses and put this to bed?

Edited by Superfly Guy (12/19/2007 10:20:44 AM CET)

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 12/19/2007 10:20:44 AM

Everyone talks about daytrading. It shouldn't be this way and real basketball is different.

Well honestly you should open your eyes to one thing:

* Real basketball has been around for aged.
BB for 3 seasons.

*In Real basketball no team gets handed 15 players and is able to increase their the strongpoints of their players. In BB this is possible.

*Real 18 year old Basketball players dont all train at the same speed. In BB they do.

*Real Basketball doesnt involve people who do not yet know much about the sport. BB does.

In conclusion: BB and Basketball are 2 different things. BB is a GREAT new basketball management game learning to stablize its economy and ridding itself of its child diseases.

The difference between a new game and one that has been around for ages is noticable, but there will allways be trading, just like in real life management. Maybe in real basketball it takes longer and the differences in trading prices are slower, but please consider that a season takes about 3 times as long or more.

In every game and in a lot of RL situations trading happens and whether you like it or not it will happen. Look at E-bay, the stockmarket and any successfull corporation. What simply happens in BB is that Daytraders get paid for the time they invest in this sim. Good traders get lots of profits where bad traders have a hard time making any.

Anyway,

I don't mean to offend anyone, but these are just the simple facts of life and if you don't like it, then you should stop playing online games which have money involved...


Kind regards and happy holidays everone,

Floppzzy

Everyone understands that real basketball and BB are to separate things, and almost everyone also understand that BB is based on real basketball. This means that the development of BB is a compromisae between two things:

* Ability to "simulate" real basketball
* Playability / game experience

If a feature that exists in real basketball would decrease the playability or game experience then this should not be implemented, or implemented in a different way. The examples you mentioned are excellent examples of when the playability / game experience requirement has had influenced the design.

Opposite to you examples DT does not "simulate2 real basketball at all and furthermore for most people it ruinds the "game experience".

As of the second part od your post I do not understand it at all. You are discussing as if people wanted to stop trading completely, but as a matter of fact I have not seen one single post stating this, so you are depating against an opinion that does not exist. There is a huge difference between allowing trading as such and limiting the ability to make money on short term trading.

As of the second part od your post I do not understand it at all. You are discussing as if people wanted to stop trading completely, but as a matter of fact I have not seen one single post stating this, so you are depating against an opinion that does not exist. There is a huge difference between allowing trading as such and limiting the ability to make money on short term trading.

Exactly, daytrading is just a controversial subject, most of them here think it should be limited in one way or another, and the daytraders defend themselves, understandable because their tactics might be ruined.

But since this thread already got about 180 posts I think everyone said what he wanted to and all newer posts are just more of the same. It's good to have discussions like this to improve the game, but it's getting a little long I think.

So I quote Floppy here,

Kind regards and happy holidays everone

Merry Christmas HoHoHo etc etc.

Ciao

PatjeBono

Opposite to you examples DT does not "simulate2 real basketball at all and furthermore for most people it ruinds the "game experience".

Most people? I'm sorry I just see about 20 people complaining in this thread out of nearly 17.000 players total.

And honestly, the people complaining should just move on if they don't like it. Most of them are not paying anything for it, which in my eyes also invalidates a large portion of their complaints. I find it rather annoying to see that the ones that pay supporter and invest time (like doom and myself) are being attacked for our succesfull way of playing the game. While the ones that don't invest like you are complaining.

And furthermore if you don't like people making money trading, then don't buy of of them. From now on just check if they've often made a profit and if you don't like them, don't buy their player. Just look elswhere for another player or find a game that doesn't involve trading or money.

On a final note: Complainers never achieve greatness, but the ones looking for creative and legal ways to get ahead do!


edit: I have no problem whatsoever with the 20% tax and wouldn't have a problem with other measures either. Just have a problem with people who talk about DT like its a crime and ruining everything.


Edited by LA-Floppzzy (12/19/2007 1:10:32 PM CET)

Last edited by Floppzzy at 12/19/2007 1:10:32 PM

And honestly, the people complaining should just move on if they don't like it. Most of them are not paying anything for it, which in my eyes also invalidates a large portion of their complaints.

Well of course you could move on, or you can choose to try to improve the game. My guess is that the BBs are thankful for active users that tell them what they like or not.

And furthermore if you don't like people making money trading, then don't buy of of them.

Sorry to tell, but this is really ignorant. To go through transfer history each time you want to buy a player is frankly not anything fun at all, and even if I would it would still not help as everyone, or at least a lot, must do this utterly booring check everytime they want to buy a player to make this work.

On a final note: Complainers never achieve greatness, but the ones looking for creative and legal ways to get ahead do!

Just another comment that shows that you completely misunderstood what peopleare saying. We are not complaing about you using the system as it is designed today. This is your right to do as long as the rules permit it. Some people might not like it, or not be too impressed about sthose using strategy, but as long as it is allowed we'll have to accept it.

What we are complaining about is that this possibility exists. Therefore we what to evolve the game in a direction that we believe in. If you classify people that want to change things as "complainers" then you should ask that "stuipid" South African "complainer" Nelson Mandela for instance if he believes that he acieved something by complaining or not.